Disabling ABS was the best "easy" mod ever!!!

[MrMazda92]

It saved me from a hell of a pileup today...

A morbidly obese woman cut me off in a Subaru outback and floored her brakes on the highway(I was doing only about 50, thankfully) and I missed her by maybe a foot. She came to a complete stop, as did I; Had there been a car behind me, I would have been rear ended for sure... I leave LOTS of room on rainy day driving, and I still nearly hit her.

Had I not disabled my ABS(yanked the fuse a few months ago), I would have wrecked my '92 today. I have zero doubt in my mind that the reduced stopping distance saved my car from the junkyard today...

This is enough that I am without a doubt pursuing my MS6/MSP brakes(with way wider tires) project. As soon as my swap is finished(shooting for January, possibly a group KL swap mini-meet), I'll be making this my primary focus!

[Daninski]

ABS sucks bigg balls for sure. I really hate the pulsing of the peddle taking away one of the only controls a man has left. Did you know ABS was invented by a woman. She made sure her man had control over as little as possible. When they did an autopsy they found his testicles were shrunk up like raisins. ABS BAD

[MrMazda92]

I had noticed an improvement, and am definitely sold at this point... I'd locked the brakes up in the rain with ABS "working" before, so I'm definitely happier with no ABS at all. I'd fully remove the system, but that's an awful lot of work for minimal gain...

Too bad my '93 has no ABS, and my '92 does... ;(

[Josh]

Hmm my system works perfectly though I hate ABS. I would say it is not that different in function as to how it worked in my RX8. You could grab a bit more brake in the 8 before it kicked in but it is like 1500 lbs heavier. I really only have an issue with it when you come up to say a light raining and cross over a white line or turtle then it kicks in and its like Wohhhaa WTF!!... I almost hit that dude. I have been looking into upgrading it actually. Comparing our system to that of other cars that are a bit larger and they share the same plugs on the ABS control module, but some of the pump systems are different. IDK I am kind of worried about the ABS kicking in prematurely when I upgrade to the 4 pot fronts and the 1" master..

[Nd4SpdSe]

I'm not sure how ABS being disabled save you....

ABS never claimed to reduce you stopping distance, it's designed to keep you under control, being able to avoid accidents and incidents by maneuvering away from what you need to avoid.


There's mixed information on ABS reducing stopping distance in slick conditions, but in dry, it does add.

What you did was just lock up the brakes and pray. You took a chance and got lucky. Not I don't know exactly your scenario, but with or without ABS, it really shouldn't make a differences unless slamming the brakes are THE last resort. If course using the brakes to slow down your speed, but in most cases, there's a way out/around the situation. I've avoided accidents by hitting the gas instead of the brake, getting the frig out of there rather than stopping right in his way. It's very rare that I'll be in a situation where I'll hit the brakes and hope I stop in time.

I learned to drive on a 626, and with my Mx-3, neither had ABS, and I got really good and pressing the brake and holding it milimeters way from the locking point in our Canadian winters, as opposed to the pumping that they recommend. If I went too far and locked up, i'd just back off and readjust. Usually the first thing I so when I pull out of the driveway, I would do a few brake checks to get a feel for the conditions in the winter; the rain I don't. Anyway, I could feel much less force of deceleration when the wheels locked up, the car was just sliding. Since my Mx-3 didn't have ABS, I'm not aware on how good or bad that system is. In reality, ABS should only kick in when the system detects a wheel/wheels rolling at a different speed. It shouldn't kick in prematurely if all 4 wheels are rolling at the same speed in deceleration unless your at the point of wheels on the verge of locking up. Unless you have something wrong with your brakes and one side is doing more braking than the other, than naturally, the ABS would/could sence that.

Of course, both the X and the 8 have ABS, but when it kicks in, it means on of the wheels locked up because I've over-braked. ABS is there when there is a 100% pure panic stop. The only time it ever really kicks in is when I'm driving a bit more spiritly than I could and am coming up too fast at a stop sign and/or hit an icy patch there. Tires make a huge difference too where it was hard not to kick in ABS when I was driving my room mates F150 with balding tires in the snow, and with my MTR off-road tires before I got a chance to put on my winter tires, which make a night/day difference.

Mind you, all of this isn't like your situation, but more extreme condition compared to your rain, but also, easier to practice and feel the difference between ABS braking, locked up braking, and hard but non-locked/non-abs braking.

Also, I don't know what you mean when this wants to want you pursue more of your brake upgrade. You locked up your brakes as they are stock and the BB kit wouldn't of changed anything in that situation.

[Mnemonic]

I agree 151.8% with Nd45spdse on this...

[Josh]

Well besides the RX8 this is really my first car that has ABS. Now it is a standard but did not used to be. What my concerns are is that by altering the brakes or master it will cause the system to not function as designed. In the RX8 you can push the car a lot further in the dry and wet before the system kicks in but it is also RWD. Being FWD the mx system kicks in super easy in the wet and ice. I have decent tires but they are a summer tire. I ran summer tires year round in the 8

When I started driving I learned in the snow, great experience everyone should, but all my cars up to a point you have to learn to feather the pedal in the summer or winter depending on driving and conditions and such. The ABS is supposed to do this work for you, as you mentioned. SO if your car has ABS you are not supposed to pump the brakes like you would in the days of old. You are to just simply push down and let the system do the work for you. The MX system IMO allows the car to travel too far. The slightest slip, like one tire crossing a painted line at 5 mph will set the system off and the car will not brake as soon as you intended. unlike that of the RX8 being RWD when you are gearing down to come to a stop all your engine weight and torque add to this effect. It makes for some rather hart pumping conditions if you are not careful, I generally brake quite far in advance when in traffic and such, I like my brakes to last.

This past summer I was doing some spirited driving through the pass with some mazda guys and over heated my brakes, If you have ever done that you know the car will not stop it just keeps going. This is a similar feeling when driving the mx with ABS in the wet or ice. Its crap. Now that I think about it, with the spirited driving I have done in the wife's Kompressor I have not once gotten the ABS to kick in... hmm I guess that's just the German engineering.

IMO the system is just very touchy, no complaints in the dry though.

[MrMazda92]

What you did was just lock up the brakes and pray. You took a chance and got lucky. Not I don't know exactly your scenario, but with or without ABS, it really shouldn't make a differences unless slamming the brakes are THE last resort.

Wrong. Just wrong. Had I locked the brakes, I would be driving a '93, not a '92. I can't speak for other MX-3s, besides the 2 that I drive regularly, but they do in fact stop quicker without ABS enabled, and I don't consider locked brakes and sliding 15 feet to be effective stopping. I drove the '92 with ABS for about 2.5 years(around 65,000 miles), and the '93 without for about 8,000 miles. That is about the point when I yanked the fuse for ABS in my '92, and she stops even better than the '93(better brake pads, I've flushed ancient brake fluid out and replaced it with new, properly bleeding all the way, and I am proud to say my tires stop great in any weather). That was ~10,000 miles ago, and believe me I've been playing with my stopping distance to see if the choice was one I was happy with. I had made my decision prior to this experience, which simply reinforced my previous findings.

I might add that I was on a 2 lane highway, boxed in by a guard rail and another car, and my options were limited to stopping or rear-ending her. Driving around simply wasn't an option at the time, although it was about 10 seconds later, when I promptly did so.

Also, I don't know what you mean when this wants to want you pursue more of your brake upgrade. You locked up your brakes as they are stock and the BB kit wouldn't of changed anything in that situation.

I didn't lock my brakes, although I very well may have with ABS(shouldn't happen so easily, but it did, hell maybe mine wasn't working properly ), as I would have needed to literally floor them to stop. I have never locked them since disabling it, and honestly use a lot less pressure on the pedal. I can't say whether or not the "feel" is supposed to change with our without ABS, but I am way more confident in the braking than I was before.

Also, my brakes will require a larger wheel(2" wider, in this case), which in turn will allow me to run a wider tire, which in turn will increase traction. If anything, it'll be less force on the pedal, and less likelihood of skidding on wet ground.

I may not be the most experienced member on the forums when it comes to engine swaps, custom work, or cars in general(Hell, I'm 23 years old, some of the members have been wrenching longer than that), but I know when I've locked my brakes and when I haven't. If I didn't, after 8 years on the road(pushing 550,000 miles now), I should lose my privilege to drive.

[MrMazda92]

Josh,
You nailed it man, described it better than I did for sure too.
Not all MX-3s were equipped with ABS, and honestly after messing with it, I have a new-found appreciation for the fact that my '93 does not.

I first drove in a '93 GMC Suburban, and god was it fun. Parallel parking, freeway driving in California, backing down loooooooonnng boat ramps with 4 boats stacked on a trailer(13' boats), those were the days.

If only I had driven a manual back then, unfortunately that didn't happen until 2009 when I bought my '92. Still, I've driven in snow, sleet, pouring rain, even a few blizzards(Nevada, holiday travel), and honestly nobody should sit behind the wheel of a car for long without experiencing it all.

Kompressor! Of course it'll be less problematic...

[Josh]

When the RS was FWD I did the rear disk and GS master cylinder swap, and CS braded lines (I was running my 17" tsw's and 215's, the tsw's weigh in at like 22lbs each), I could be driving at 60 mph hit the brakes and lock up all 4 tires on dry pavement. That is crazy $hit. Now that only ever happened if I wanted it to.

The GS being heavier the ABS can be nice. though as I mentioned I think it is activated too easily. if you have 3 of 4 tires with traction and 1 tires slips the entire system activates (as it is designed to) and then the brakes pulsate to stop you. the problem with this is you had 3 tires with solid traction and now its pulsating so it allows you to travel further than you would have if the system had not come on at all. One tire slipping for a second would not necessarily cause you to go out of control. I believe some of the newer systems will only activate the wheel that is slipping rather than all 4. If that makes sense.

[wytbishop]

Mike made a very important point. The ABS system is only intended to reduce stopping distance when conditions are slippery. When conditions are dry it has been shown to increase stopping distance. But all that aside the real point of the ABS system is to retain some "steerability" when the car is sliding by allowing hte wheels to turn intermittently.

The problem is that the MX-3 ABS system is very poor. I eliminated mine last year and the car is better without it.

[crazycanadian]

0I'm not sure how ABS being disabled save you....

ABS never claimed to reduce you stopping distance, it's designed to keep you under control, being able to avoid accidents and incidents by maneuvering away from what you need to avoid.

This is very true.. Early abs systems such as the ones in mx3's weren't that great at reducing stopping distances.. Trying to compare a newer mercedes or an Rx8 to an mx3 system is like comparing apples to oranges..

The biggest reason ABS was invented was to maintain maneuverability while in a panic situation..

Anyone who is arguing about how the braking system works better disabled is missing the big picture about the system as well and about braking systems in general.. not one of us will be running on stock rotors, pad and calipers any more... Not one of us will have properly maintained caliper sliders.. Not one of us will be running on stock size tires any more... Not one of use runs stock suspension anymore.. These factors all play a large part in how the system operates, how tires contact the road, the braking biase of the system.. The systems on the mx3s aren't smart enough to adjust for all the kinds of changes we are making to the cars.. Thus you loose braking distance when it kicks in.. The system will still maintain its primary function though.. That is to allow you to steer while braking during a panic situation.

Mx3 abs systems work fine on a stock car, with stock tires, stock style brakes, stock suspension in good shape... My gf's 94 GS worked great.. especially when you were using the system to do what its supposed to do.. Maintain maneuverability while braking... We took her car out autocross racing last winter.. In the snow/ice it out performed my 323... I could be hard on the brakes with the abs kicking in and still pitch the car around corners.. Thats what the systems were designed for back then..

Up here in BC Canada disabling the ABS system is illegal.. It will void your insurance if you are in an accident and ICBC finds your brakes as a cause for the accident... Its also a safety violation and a failure during an inspection.. You might want to check in on that with your insurance...

[Josh]

Eh here in the states we don't care about that, most states dont have inspection like you do we only have smog tests. I do know though it is against the law for me to have disconnected my airbags. I completely agree with previous two comments my complaint is only that is increases stopping distance in the wet. and kicks on a bit too early. I know its to help maneuverability and that aspect is great. I was only comparing it the the RX8 because Nd4spdse has one it was reference purposes only.

[MrMazda92]

Is Josh honestly the only person who actually read the original post?

I wasn't racing, I wasn't swerving in and out of traffic, I didn't need to turn the wheel farther than an inch at any given time. I was stopping in a straight line. On wet roads. In the rain. In Oregon, where it rains constantly in winter.

There's nothing wrong with explaining ABS(honestly, there should be a sticky, there are a few excellent descriptions in this thread about it, and I'm glad to have learned something new by reading them!), but this is ridiculous. Please, please, please, read the original post, and not just the most recent ones. -.-

[Sleeper6]

A morbidly obese woman cut me off in a Subaru

Seriously one reason why I will get an evo, if it was an evo driver it would have never happened not just some bloke in a subie, sheesh lousy subie owners... Then you would have never had to worry about slamming on those crummy abs brakes (both my gs's have been non abs thankfully). But again, I blame the subie