KLZE crank, no start, but push start yes!

V6 Technical/Performance Discussions
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dukem2
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: March 6th, 2006, 9:07 pm

KLZE crank, no start, but push start yes!

Post by dukem2 »

k. here's the story.

i recently finished (end of summer) my KLZE swap into my 93' mx-3 gs. it ran great and started up every time for a couple weeks. then soon after i noticed i didnt hear the fuel pump come on when i turned the key to the ON position.
the car still started fine. when it started getting colder like in october i found that i couldnt start my car n e more unless it was warm outside (85+) or i recently shut it off. otherwise i would have to push start it and pop the clutch.

Last week i was in shop all week (i go to the University of Northwestern ohio; I'm going for a bachelor's degree in high performance) and instead of doing my work packet, me, the teacher, and a few classmates helped me on trying to figure out my car. symptoms:?

1. starter cranks very good- amp draw is only around 250
2. there is no fuel pressure when the key is on unless we ground the light green wire going to the diagnostic port
3. in cranking position, there is 42 psi present
4. we checked all relays, fuses, grounds, and solenoids; everything checks out.
5. if the car is push started, its starts very well with even 50 rpm.

so if i barely jog with pushing i can pop it in 3rd, but with the starter cranking at 300 or watever rpm, it wont start.

basicly anytime i want to park, i need to find the highest point of the parking lot and park as close as i can to it so i can push start my car to leave. this is pretty frustrating as u can imagine. i literally push start it at least a couple times a day. i have to drive around looking for the best gas station that is designed to have a slight hill. lol


so we printed out every wiring diagram, and every flow chart, but the wiring diagrams help the most.

we found the the power ciruit relay controlled the turning on of the fuel pump when in the ON postion, and when i was in ON there was voltage present. one ground is at the PCM, and another goes to the diagnostic port. so we grounded it at the diagnostic port and hey the pump came on. why the PCM isn't doing it i dont know. we checked for spark, thats good. we checked for fuel, 42 psi checks out good when cranking (needs to be between 38-46). then we thought hey check the injectors. we checked the injectors. they all have a common power and are grounded individually by the PCM. in ON we have 12 volts source voltage. ok. but when we crank the motor, they drop to between 5 and 8 volts.

so basicly we figured when im cranking, the PCM isnt grounding the injectors to get the fuel in, but if i push start it then the PCM sees a signal from the distributor, then from the crank, then its like "ok we see a few inputs, lets turn on the fuel pump" and it starts, or something like that.

so right now i have it rigged so i can at least start it after several hours of being shutdown. i have a wire running from ground, to a switch, and to the ground of one of the injectors, so in a warm resart, i crank the motor, hit the switch for a second to dump fuel into at least one cylinder, and shut off the switch and it starts. the PCM sees that the engine wants to start so it decides to go ahead and ground the injectors when they need to be, this is just a way for me the get around without always having to park on top of the hill, or not park at all because there is no hill.

any suggestions guys? give it a try, u just might make my day :D

anything i missed? ill fill in more info as questions start being thrown at me.

Thanks,
jon
KL-ZE 1993 MX-3 GS, lightweight flywheel, cone filter. 155 whp, 160 wheel torque
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shameem
Supporting Member
Posts: 820
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 9:59 pm

Re: KLZE crank, no start, but push start yes!

Post by shameem »

Check coolant temperature sensor and look into HEI mod.....
Clean all existing grounds and add more grounds.....
Check fuel filter and strainer....

The fuel pump is not supposed to come on when you turn the ignition key - the ecu will turn it on only when it "sees" airflow into the engine (vaf sensor) as well as engine rotation (cam angle sensor & crank angle sensor). If you GND the wire going to "F/P" (fuel pump) in the diagnostic connector the fuel pump will turn on - it is designed that way to diagnose fuel pump issues and override ecu control of fuel pump.
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dukem2
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: March 6th, 2006, 9:07 pm

Re: KLZE crank, no start, but push start yes!

Post by dukem2 »

thnx for some tips. the coolant temp sensors are good, both replaced recently and we check the resistance- it increases as it gets colder- which checks out. also the fuel filter was replaced not even 6000 miles ago. i have clean all grounds and added 4 extra grounds just in case. we also did check the crank angle sensor- it read 528 ohms which is good. it should be between 520-560 ohms or something like that. ill check the cam sensor this week. keep'em comin guys.

can someone post a link of what an HEI mod is? i wont be online for a week so i wont be able to answer any more questions till then.

c u all on friday ( i have no internet connection in my apartment in ohio :( which i am gona leave to drive to in a minute.)
KL-ZE 1993 MX-3 GS, lightweight flywheel, cone filter. 155 whp, 160 wheel torque
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