Sry for bringing up old topic, but.... (KJ)

FlyingMXer · Post by **FlyingMXer** » March 2nd, 2006, 10:51 pm

Ok, base info: 92 GS auto 137k mi. needs tranny work (as all autos do). Its my girlfriend's car (she fell in love with the mx before mine was totaled) and she wants to keep it auto. I read the two extensive old threads, but never found out if the swap to a KJ was ever done. We started looking at an engine swap because the current one just doesn't run like it should. I mean it goes through 3/4 of a tank in 148 miles. I thought for $400 a JDM K8 would probably be cheaper than trying to fix the old one ( I would do the work myself but time is a factor and I dont have enough spare time to tinker and figure out what is wrong with it whereas an engine swap could be done in a shorter time frame). In my research I found the KJ. There seemed to be alot of worries about mating it to a MTX, however since she wants ATX this isnt a prob. I dont really understand the OBD I and OBD II concers that I read about so if some one can explain that I would be greatly appreciative.

Enough of the boring backstory, to the point. Has the KJ swap ever been done and does anyone think it would be worth it? For my own research, where can I find the size specs for the KL-ZE?

Thanks for any help

Dallas

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » March 2nd, 2006, 11:09 pm

Pull your codes, and see if maybe somethings wrong there that could be affecting your mileage. I don't know much about the KJ tho, I'd say screw a jdm k8 and just get a DE for cheap from an autowrecker...

Aston Wards · Post by **Aston Wards** » March 2nd, 2006, 11:30 pm

AFAIK you shouldn't have any worries with OBD with yours being a 92

unless you're swapping in a K8, you're gonna have to add an Air Flow Controller...., see the Auto threads for more info

As for the KJ, nobody on here has done it, and most think it impossible.
Me, i think it just needs some creative thinking...., and a bit of ingenuity...., perhaps i'll pay a visit to Kiwi_MX3!

kiwi_MX3 · Post by **kiwi_MX3** » March 3rd, 2006, 5:56 pm

The KJ is a 3.0litre 90 degree V6 the "physical" size from bank to bank
it will not fit into the MX3 engine bay.

Sorry..

FlyingMXer · Post by **FlyingMXer** » March 3rd, 2006, 7:54 pm

Actually the KJ is a 2.3 L and I can find nothing that states it differs from any of the other K series engines in the degree of angle. The only thing I have found is that it is taller and may present hood clearance problems. I also read that it uses the same mounts as the ZE. I am still looking for measurements of the ZE paired with an ATX to compare to the KJ specs I found. Thanks for the help, keep it coming.

Dallas

projectB10 · Post by **projectB10** » March 3rd, 2006, 11:06 pm

I have a KJ-ZEM sitting in the shed - in bits. I bought it for the injectors and the rods. I was also interested in the notion of a hybrid - KJ block and KL heads, IM etc. I have come to the conclusion that there are just too many differences between the two blocks for that to be an easy option.

I agree with Kiwi. the size of the KJ means that you will need some major body work to accomodate the KJ under the hood.

Changing the K8 for a KL (with KL47 IM and thermoblockers) mean't that I had to do a bit or rearranging under the hood. A KJ would sit proud of the existing hood line.

kiwi_MX3 · Post by **kiwi_MX3** » March 4th, 2006, 2:12 am

projectB10 wrote:I have a KJ-ZEM sitting in the shed - in bits. I bought it for the injectors and the rods. I was also interested in the notion of a hybrid - KJ block and KL heads, IM etc. I have come to the conclusion that there are just too many differences between the two blocks for that to be an easy option.

I agree with Kiwi. the size of the KJ means that you will need some major body work to accomodate the KJ under the hood.

Changing the K8 for a KL (with KL47 IM and thermoblockers) mean't that I had to do a bit or rearranging under the hood. A KJ would sit proud of the existing hood line.

I was refering to the JE-ZE , thats a massize donk......

Always get that and these other donk's mixed up, So Mr ProjectB10
you have done the KLZE swap then????

projectB10 · Post by **projectB10** » March 4th, 2006, 3:17 am

Yep Kiwi all done. I got a low km KL engine and box (out of a JDM MX6 ) from AnyMazspares in Hamilton. I also got the KL47 IM and TB and K8 flywheel from him. Thats also where I gat the KJ-ZEM and a Lantis box but all of thats another story, I have spent a few dollars with Bryan.

Turned out to be a good donk, no HLA or friction gear noise and I replaced all the obvious maintenance stuff, water pump, belts, bearings and the like . It goes well. The only real performance mod I have is a CAI. I also stuck a K8 flywheel and 6 puck clutch pressure plate combo in it with an eye to the future.

I am surprised at how well it goes . My daily is an 05 Berlina V8 auto and I reckon the Presso would give that a good run upto about 160k/hr - runs out of legs above that.

I swapped the front engine mount for an MX6 one and used one of those poly insert mounts to stiffen it up. Thats worked out Ok but reversing is a juddering nightmare hence my interest in the MS mounts (I should have done it properly the first time).

I have a built MSnS (not by me and also not installed) and planned to install a 67mm TB and headers I sourced from the States, I stuffed all that up through poor planning. The TB (IAC on wrong side) wont fit on the KL47 IM and the headers dont/wont fit with out a lot of cutting and rewelding. That really hacked me off as the idea was to screw some extra kw's out of it with the MSnS.

I also hadn't counted on the extra exhaust volume the KL puts out so thats an issue to fix as well.

So back to the drawing board (and payPal).

kiwi_MX3 · Post by **kiwi_MX3** » March 4th, 2006, 3:31 am

Er hello Kiwi_mx3 engineering, im a lot closer and a damm
site cheaper then the states.

At some stage in the next few months i need some one with your
setup to test a range of intake mainafold's hell you can keep the
best one of the lot if you like.

Deals can be done im sure as i have mig/tig units so im sure i can
rework your exhaust system and install MSns......

Also ive got some spare mounts for the MX3 can fab up some soilds
as well if you like..

projectB10 · Post by **projectB10** » March 4th, 2006, 7:19 pm

hey Kiwi

Now thats an idea - Kiwi_MX3 Engineering - I like it.

The IM testing sounds good to me. We best keep in touch. Tell me more about your plans.

I am keen on the TB upgrade and happy to pay - how are you on that idea?

Fabrication is not in my skill set - wish it was.

My headers are SS Autochromes Gen 1. They are a POS fitment wise and quality is ordinary. I had to have the manifold flange faces milled to true - they were warped to hell - I would guess that there are a lot of MX3's running around with bad leaks at the exhaust manifolds if my set were typical. There is just no way that you could pull them to true on bolt up. That meant tacking them into a temporary jig and a trip to the local engine recon guy to run through his milling machine. I also had the 02 bung positioning fixed, on both the front and year sets. Just ran out of time when I found the problems with fitting up the primaries at time of installation. Add that cost to the cost of purchase and shipping and it was getting out of hand. Ebay crap.

I have already ordered a full set of MS mounts - they are about three weeks away.

Not a Blue OVAL fan but Herrod do an aftermarket cat back for the late model 2.0L Laser that looks like it would be a straight bolt up. They have one in stock locally and will put the Presso up on the lift to see if thats a runner - the $$$ will kill me though if the wife doesn't do that first.

so like the idea of fabing an exhaust - I am an old fart and I am definitely not much interested in the 75mm exhaust + fart can approach to doing things.

kiwi_MX3 · Post by **kiwi_MX3** » March 5th, 2006, 12:46 am

On the SS2000 mondeo, we ran 2.25 inch from the headers all the
the rear then when two into one up and over the rear arms then into
a superflow, had a very nice growl to it.

A pair of resonators ( hotdogs ) in the primarys would take a lot of
the growl out.

But yea see if the Herrod setup is a close fit, should be.....

My workshop pretty much has it all bar a milling machine and
drill press, since work has those and also the guy across the creek
from me does have a compelete setup since he is a contractor.

the IM's im sorting, design change again! and will be using a JE50
throttle body from a JE-ZE just makes life easier to test the ideas.
as the standard one is not suited to my design.

projectB10 · Post by **projectB10** » March 5th, 2006, 2:32 am

geez Kiwi - you have done some interesting stuff - I didn't follow SS2000 much. How did the mondeo go??

I will go with your advice - 2.25 inch is the goods then. I 'll keep in touch and let you know what happens.

I am definitely in for the IM testing thing.

I saw your other post re work - have you been caught up in or affected by that Air NZ - lets let china do the work nonsense?

whatever I think that whole ANZ decison is short term expedient and dumb for NZ in the long term - my 2 cents is that we (NZ) will bleed skills like there is no tomorrow.

kiwi_MX3 · Post by **kiwi_MX3** » March 5th, 2006, 2:54 am

Ive been lucky to play with a lot of cool toys here and overseas.

A good book to get hold of is "four Stroke performance tuning"
by A. Graham bell. Tech books in auckland should have it
you can check them out online and search there database.

Headers and primarys are setup by where you want peak Hp
and peak tourque, by the book its gold !!!!! and the missues will
love you for it

My setup im looking at running twin 2.25's right back to the rear
then into a superflow, saves that twisted goat horn crap that you
have to bolt on under the engine and besides that would get in the
way of my lower strut bar.

Yea im caught up in the Air Nz mess, im a machist for them on
heavy maintenace and engines, the head of the hangers has cut a
deal with one of the boys in the shop and only wants two peaple?

yup he was wearing lipstick and in sure vasoline on his a-- tooo...

and im not one of them, its going to be a screw up for a long time
the silly thing is im getting made redundant, but please can i stay on
for 6-8 months to train peaple in what i do???? go farking figure!!!!!!

The stupid thing is yes it needed sorting out i agree to that fully just not
in the manner its been done, and hell that same dickheads in charge that
put us there in the first place are gasp going to manage the new bizzo,

so yea time to get the hell out of dodge as they say so at the end of all
of this im looking to go and bum around canada and the states for 6 - 12
months

projectB10 · Post by **projectB10** » March 6th, 2006, 1:14 am

yeah the reading bit I can handle - I am working my way through "Maximum Boost" (Corky Bell) and "How to tune and Modify EMS" (Jeff Hartman). Its just that I have zero fabrication skills so big gap between concept and delivery.

Sorry to hear the news about work. Seems nuts - your job no longer exists but we still need you to train those whose jobs do still exist .Bizarre really.

Its a hard thing to do but I would take up the short term training work - 8 months is a long time and who knows what will happen between now and then.

- Just keep your head up - your skills and knowledge are worth dollars.

kiwi_MX3 · Post by **kiwi_MX3** » March 6th, 2006, 2:40 am

Actully ive got a wee question on the megasquirt thing
and maybe this does warrent another post but

can you bin the VAF and run with a map sensor alone
or is the megasquirt back packing on the mazda ecu
and sesors?