Car won't start - dealer guessing it's the Coil Pack

pseudomarine · Post by **pseudomarine** » December 14th, 2005, 12:58 pm

Hi all -

new here; all the way from N. Ireland - wish i'd heard of this site before now.

have had my MX-3 for 5 years - it's 10 years old. it has NEVER failed to start for me until now (apart from a handful of times in extreme damp when it started 2nd/3rd time).

i had a mechanic look at the car - he said spark plugs and starter motor are fine. he got it started once but it wouldn't start again after that. he recommended i talk to a dealer because he reckoned it was an electronic problem.

so...i phoned my local mazda dealer (

) and the guy there reckons it probably needs a new coil pack assembly.

these are *expensive* - c. £450 in the UK.

has anyone had any similar experience? i know it's a pretty vague description...

any help or advice would be really appreciated - i don't want to pay c. £700 to fix my car as it's not worth much more than that....

cheers, all

93_mx3_gs · Post by **93_mx3_gs** » December 14th, 2005, 1:06 pm

did they see if it has any spark getting to the plugs ? Might be the distributor, it seems to be a common problem.

nope-mx3 · Post by **nope-mx3** » December 14th, 2005, 3:55 pm

We dont have coilpacks to my knowledge....

You might want to check the external HEI & Coil mod.

Very cheap mod, and it might resolve all your problems.

nope-mx3

MX3 GSR for dummies · December 14th, 2005, 4:38 pm

It is your module. Hei is the way to go. It will resolve all your problems now and in the future plus only costs about $80. Heres the instructions http://www.geocities.com/dejayxtravagan ... NSTALL.doc and here are all the pics...
http://www.geocities.com/dejayxtravagan ... page1.html
http://www.geocities.com/dejayxtravagan ... page2.html
http://www.geocities.com/dejayxtravagan ... page3.html
http://www.geocities.com/dejayxtravagan ... page4.html
http://www.geocities.com/dejayxtravagan ... page5.html
Sorry for the ghetto layout but I have not put this site together properly yet

If you want the actual pics just contact me at stephen@rodgerswall.com
Cheers

hgallegos915 · Post by **hgallegos915** » December 14th, 2005, 6:45 pm

do the mod..it works wonders..check the coils resistance. 99 percen of the timne it the ignitor. DONT buy a new disty and the dealer has no idea what the mod is. Wow ive seen around at least 12 people with this problem this cold season

pseudomarine · Post by **pseudomarine** » December 15th, 2005, 12:08 pm

thanks for your responses...

at this point, i'm considering the HEI mod or replacing the stock ignition module in the distributor.

i'll probably get the coils resistance checked, as advised here. currently, i'm still guessing that it's the ignition module causing the problem. the car just isn't starting at all - it sounds like it *should*, but just isn't catching. i'm gutted that this is happening now, just over christmas.

i've seen the mazda ignition module get a lot of criticism in this forum. but i can buy 1 online for about £80 - brand new with 3 year warranty. if so, do i need to replace the ignition module AND the ignition coil? i can get a brand new distributor with 3 year warranty for £175. i don't think the original distributor was ever replaced - certainly not in the 5 years that i've owned the car. it has never let me down...although, don't get me started on the CV joints

should i discount the fuel pump altogether? only time i ever had trouble with the car cutting out (while driving) was when the bottom of the fuel tank was full of gunk.

cheers

MX3 GSR for dummies · December 15th, 2005, 12:27 pm

If you have checked spark and you have it, then it might be fuel. Otherwise your looking for trouble with 3 year warranties as it will go and you'll be tracking people down and probably get punk'd by a supplier!

pseudomarine · Post by **pseudomarine** » December 16th, 2005, 12:05 pm

imagine my sadness when the recovery truck turned up this morning to take my car away...imagine how the mazda dealership reacts to a 10 year old, broken-down MX-3 being towed through their gates, in front of a bunch of potential customers...

well, the dealer just phoned me back.

they still don't know what the problem is. spark is getting to all 6 plugs individually, so he is saying it's not the ignition (and this surprises him, and me too). fuel is getting through too. they haven't been able to start it at all. starter motor is fine.

He mentioned, very much in passing, that the oxygen sensor error code came up, but he doesn't think that that's the cause. i suppose a faulty oxygen sensor (according to other forum topics) usually leads to the car running badly. from what i've read here, the O2 sensor should not cause the car to not start at all?

the only good news is that we agreed a pretty decent price (£25) for diagnosing the problem. but they have to leave it until monday now.

anyway - just wanted to keep you guys up to date.

have a nice weekend, everyone

MX3 GSR for dummies · December 16th, 2005, 12:29 pm

I wish we walked through the issues b4. i though it was a spark problem to begin with. Now I think this may resolve your starting issues. If you have spark and fuel, then all that is left is air. Therefore I think there is still air

but with our car they are very sensitive to leaks in the TB throughout your intake system to the air filter. With that said, you should first look for signs of crack on the tubing between your VAF and TB. Hopefully I am correct in the diagnosis. I myself though I broke something when I was givin her on our highways here but turned out to be the intake slipping off.

pseudomarine · Post by **pseudomarine** » December 16th, 2005, 12:44 pm

from my 1st post, i'd said that my original mechanic found no problem with the spark plugs or starter (now, i'm not sure whether he tested one spark plug, or whether he checked that each plug was getting the charge in order)

also from my 1st post, the mazda dealer, over the phone, was convinced it was the ignition coil + module (I told him i'd had the spark plugs and starter motor checked out)

late this afternoon, the mazda dealer is saying it's not the distributor and not the fuel pump.

after i spoke to him this afternoon, it occurred to me that i'd read something on this forum...the 3 (or 4?) things a car needs to start - fuel, electric, air (and a 4th?? can't remember).

so, i then decided that i would have remember to mention to the dealer to check for split tubing...and now you've reinforced that! i feel a lot happier. nevermind that i'd love to be 1 step ahead of the dealer.

y'know, i know **** all about cars, but as of this week i know 10 times as much as i knew last week.

thanks mx-3.com

pseudomarine · Post by **pseudomarine** » December 16th, 2005, 12:48 pm

sorry, man - what i meant to say also is: i wrote everything i knew in the posts, when i knew them.

while the original mechanic had checked the spark plugs and given them the ok, the dealer took it a step further and checked that each plug was getting the charge in turn.

the dealer said it's a common fault that the distributor sends the charge to all 6 plugs at once and this damages the ignition module. but he seems to have proven today that it's not the distributor.

MX3 GSR for dummies · December 16th, 2005, 12:49 pm

Theres always a learning curve budds! just make sure you turn the wheel when you get to that curve

93_mx3_gs · Post by **93_mx3_gs** » December 16th, 2005, 4:43 pm

MX3 GSR for dummies wrote:I wish we walked through the issues b4. i though it was a spark problem to begin with. Now I think this may resolve your starting issues. If you have spark and fuel, then all that is left is air. Therefore I think there is still air but with our car they are very sensitive to leaks in the TB throughout your intake system to the air filter. With that said, you should first look for signs of crack on the tubing between your VAF and TB. Hopefully I am correct in the diagnosis. I myself though I broke something when I was givin her on our highways here but turned out to be the intake slipping off.

I had that happen to me as well and I freaked out

Car dies on the freeway, I pull off to the shoulder, crank it, sputters and dies, put gas to the floor, it starts and runs and then dies.

pseudomarine · Post by **pseudomarine** » December 19th, 2005, 6:20 am

the saga (slowly) continues...

so, last night i went to bed thinking - great, if it's just a leaky air hose, it'll be cheap to fix. After Christmas, I'll get change all of the engine fluids & filters and really get to know a bit better how the car works, with a LOT of help from all the FAQs on this forum. what can i say - you guys are converting me.

so, as I was dropping off to sleep last night, i was thinking about phoning the mazda dealer this morning, proudly telling him to check the air intake hoses.

so, monday morning - i phoned the dealer. he says he'll get their technician to check the air hoses, saying it's not something that should stop the car from starting (I claimed it probably CAN stop the car from starting). he also says they're getting strange error codes - NE1 and NE2. He can't trace what these are and has put a request in to Mazda technical. I came off the phone and checked this site - I QUICKLY find out that the codes relate to crank & camshaft position sensors. I don't know why he couldn't find this out from the manuals I'm assuming they have. Unless NE1 is a non-UK code or something...but my car is a UK model.

So, they still have my car. It still isn't starting. I'm waiting for them to phone me back - my fingers remain crossed that it's something relatively simple like a faulty air hose. The fact that there are multiple error codes for different sensors worries me a little.

I don't know whether they have reset the error codes and tried to restart the car - I don't know whether the codes would be registered again after a reset?

I've been reading in these forums about the sensors...if the crankshaft position sensor can indicate a problem with the timing belt, does this mean that the car wouldn't be getting the spark right? if so, i think that it's not a timing issue, because i've been told the 6 spark plugs are working correctly.

cheers guys

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » December 19th, 2005, 6:35 am

I had similar symptoms a lot of years ago on my Mazda MPV - spark to all cylinders, lots of fuel but nothing catching at all - not a bit. The MPV was only a year old and it happened in the dead of winter when it was extremely cold out. There were no advanced signs to indicate any degradadtion whatsoever - it just wouldn't start one morning.
The problem - timing belt shifted enough on the pullies to put it so far out of sync that it couldn't even ignite any fuel. Pulling valve covers off and confirming timing mark alignment with the cams and timing pullies/belt should confirm this. Don't want to see youpay more than you have to. It's fairly simple fix too. Your timing belt tensioner may be fatiguing and allowed this to happen. Since you've had the MX for three years, when was the last time you changed the timing belt/tensioner?
Hope this helps.
*John*