Loudest BOV

[maldo]

Very true. Project Matrix with 11:1CR puts down some impressive numbers as well.<P>FYI - Ric is dynoing this weekend once the headgasket is replaced. Shooting for the 600rwhp barrier.

[jaydog5678]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ikedasquid:<BR><STRONG> I've been "researching" this for a long time, and I could be wrong, but I think whoever was gonna try 10 or 15 psi on a stock b6 should read this first. A stock b6t or bpt or bpd can run 16 psi as far as engine internals are concerned. a b6e (DOHC or SOHC) cannot run 10 psi. the b6t, bpt, bpd, has an 8:1 cr. The 8:1 prevents detonation and actually lowers power output. However the stock engine internals (especially the connecting rods) will break under this power. There are 2 ways to break an engine. Mistuning normally wears the engine slowly, melting plugs, fouling components, cokeing turbos. Sometimes (detonation, poor oil flow - seizure) you can quickly destroy an engine this way. Tuning brings the engine out of "mistune" and produces power. <P>However, you can't tune an engine so well that you can make 400 hp on stock internals. The other way to break an engine is too much power production. High heat in the cylinders (burning more fuel), excess force on connecting rods/crank (from making more torque or increasing rpms), or busting valvetrain (high rpms). You can tune to get back wasted power (lighter wheels, lighter flywheel, lighter connecting rods), or to make power (any way to get more fuel and air at the right ratio into the engine and burn it at the right time -intakes, exhaust, turbo, supercharger, N2O, timing, FMUs, spark, really all the neat stuff) Anyway you do this you will make all of the heat and force (good for hp, but hard on internals). Eventually all this heat and force will melt/brake the engine. Running 16 psi on 9:1 cr with stock b6e falls into this catagory. For the short time it works you will make loads of power (if you could even tune it before it brakes). But you will fry that b6e quick, probably before it gets out of the garage. I would bet the conneting rods go first.<P> I have not actually done this (but hope to soon, with bpt). And if somebody has and I am wrong (no second hand s---, mike so and so has a b6e with 25 psi of boost ... if you have done it) let me know because I am really interested because like I said, i'm working on getting that bpt from cs.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Have you ever compared a B6 rod to a BPT rod? There is not much of a difference, they look almost identical. If a BPT could handle 400 stock hp, you would think a the B6ze could handle just as much with accurate tunning. There is nothing wrong with the B series engines as far as boost is concerned. The main caps for a BPT are incredibly big compared to the B6, almost like a chevy big block. They both have forged cranks. The B6 has webbing similer to a Honda B16, the BPT has no webbing. The BPT runs an 8.2 compression. Still I believe this engine will handle the power, your tranny won't like it though.<P>When you get your BPT, run 400hp with good engine managment and prove yourself wrong.

[boostedmx]

The gtx rods are no longer available from mazda. now they use the same rod as the miata and the mx3. In that respect they are similar.

[HRO]

I have read that the turbo XS H-rfl, is only good for 10-25 psi, and won't be very loud if i'm running less then 10 psi. Does anyone know of another that is reasonably priced and quite loud under the 10psi range.<BR>thanks

[natural born honda killer]

turbo xs type s. thats what i have and is quite loud. honestly if i had the chance to get a bov again id probly get a hks with a route to the intake instead of venting. yes ill miss the sound but maybe ill be able to fix the richness from the bov with the haltech. ashley youd probly know but could i do that. lean it out or something so it doesnt run rich otherwise ill just say screw it and run a tad rich in between shifts.

[rikymaru]

<A HREF="http://www.alltrac.net/tuning/blowoffvalve.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.alltrac.net/tuning/blowoffvalve.html</A> <P>And people say us DSM guys are good for nothin' That is a sticky in the dsmtalk.com forums. Anyway, listen to whatever sound you want and choose accordingly. I'm probably just goign to crush my 1g BOV; but if I was going to go aftermarket then I'd get the Greddy Type or the HKS. If you are on a budget then screw it all and get a junk yard BOV off a 1g DSM. They cost (brand new from mitsubishi) $84. From a junk yard probably $10. That or a 2.2 Daytona one will do just fine.<P>As for the sound of the Eclipse on F&F...it was faked. That was a GS (420a neon motor) Eclipse. It had nitrous but there was no turbo. And it sounded like a Greddy Type one to me and Greddy were sponsors of the movie; but that's just my guess. <P>And I'm still very anti-against the idea of running more than 300HP on a stock top end of a B6 engine. The bottom end can probably take 350; but a lot of cars can. Sorry, but those Miata guys and BPT owners went through much tuning, broken parts, and lost reliabilty to get that. Plus the B6e isn't IDENTICAL to the other engines. You need a whole other fuel system before you can start thinking "14 psi is easy." There are people that get really lucky and are meticoulous on upkeep so their engines handle it quite well. I can link you guys to a guy who ran a 12.89 in the 1/4 on a DSM with just a K&N, an exhaust, and the boost turned up on 116 octane. He did it on $350 and some weight removal. But I don't claim "Yea! DSMs can run 12's for less than $400!" He just happened to be some kind of super tuner (he holds some Sentra SER and FC Turbo II records) and did it well. I'm not jumping on anyones back; I just see a lot people interested in forced induction suddenly and I don't want anyone thinking "I'll turn it up to 16 PSI and get a GTX fuel pump. That's it!" There is quite a bit more to it than that to consider.<P>This is all just my opinion though :p

[David Coleman]

Tuning is everything. If anybody thinks they're going to make reliable power without tuning, they're fools.<P>For what it's worth, Ric [aka minimonster] just hit 450whp on a Stock bottom end BP-DE Turbo, no nitrous. Good stuff

[maldo]

Come on David, give Ric some credit! It was 455rwhp! He couldn't keep the candles lit under that pressure. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> And I'm still very anti-against the idea of running more than 300HP on a stock top end of a B6 engine. The bottom end can probably take 350; but a lot of cars can. Sorry, but those Miata guys and BPT owners went through much tuning, broken parts, and lost reliabilty to get that. Plus the B6e isn't IDENTICAL to the other engines. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>220-280rwhp on M1 or M2 is quite easy and quite reliable with the Link. Anything over that requires a TEC or Haltech . The area that the bottom end can't handle is rpm. Stock can handle 7000 bursts occasionally. Higher than that and a new center cap is recommended. Cylinder heads are the biggest weakness for high hp B6/BP motors. The NB head has a better design, more aggressive intake cam, solid lifters, etc, allowing it to make more power. The port design is very similar to the FE3 and 2JZ-GTE motors.<P>I had the B6e and B6T blocks apart and sitting side by side the other day. Identical in design, althought the B6e has smaller coolant ports on the exhaust side. Head gaskets are the same, appear to be same thickness as well although part numbers differ. Cranks are slightly different, design of the counterweights differs in favour of the B6T of course. No fittings on the block for oil return lines either. Main caps appear to be the same in size, didn't get a chance to put them on the scale. The B6e has the benefit of a main girdle.<P>Intake manifolds are different but I would give the B6e the upper hand in this case. It has longer runners and appears to be better designed. The area it lacks is port size, at lease 5mm of material would have to be removed to match the 2 manifolds.

[OsoSlo z28]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by natural born honda killer:<BR><STRONG>turbo xs type s. thats what i have and is quite loud. honestly if i had the chance to get a bov again id probly get a hks with a route to the intake instead of venting. yes ill miss the sound but maybe ill be able to fix the richness from the bov with the haltech. ashley youd probly know but could i do that. lean it out or something so it doesnt run rich otherwise ill just say screw it and run a tad rich in between shifts.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>you run rich because you have a maf. with the haltech, you'll have a map sensor that runs off the back of the manifold so no more richness during shifts.

[David Coleman]

Further on the topic of tuning; Dennis Grant [one of if not THE fastest DSM autocross car in North America]:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:31:40 -0500<BR>From: "Dennis Grant" <trog@wincom.net><P>For any of you doing forced-induction EFI motors, Honda or no, I have three<BR>pieces of advice.<P>This will cost you a little more money up front, but you will save days of hair-tearing<BR>frustration. Trust me on this.<P>Firstly, you absolutely positively need a wide-band lambda sensor with the proper<BR>controller box. You cannot cheat on this. The OEM-style switching sensors are<BR>JUNK for anything except 14.7:1. The blinky-light lambda gauges have 2 readings<BR>"rich" and "lean" and offer no more resolution than that, no matter how many<BR>LEDs are on them - and slapping a digital voltage reading on it (a la Jumptronix)<BR>offers no increase in resolution either. Don't even bother trying to kid yourself<BR>about this! Trying to use an OEM-style sensor will just send you chasing your<BR>own tail.<P>Motec makes one called the PLM. It's just under a grand US$. You need one. There<BR>are some cheaper versions out there (including a DTY kit from Australia) but<BR>my confidence in their thermal correction accuracy is not high. Bite the bullet<BR>and get the PLM.<P>Secondly, forget about using any combination of a stock ECU and a series of<BR>piggyback boxen or sensor workarounds. Instead, get yourself a proper aftermarket<BR>EFI controller. The importance of being able to make precise and accurate changes<BR>to fuel and timing curves cannot possibly be overstated.<P>Thirdly, you need some means of monitoring system fuel pressure at the rail.<BR>Fuel supply problems with the attendant loss of pressure at the rail can be<BR>hard to diagnose and offer the prospects of catastrophic failure of the engine.<BR>And do not forget that fuel pressure must raise 1:1 with manifold pressure!<P><BR>DG<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[mazdamaniac]

I went out and made this little video clip tonight because of this thread and a similar one on Probetalk:<BR><A HREF="http://www.mazdamaniac.com/hks_sbov.rm" TARGET=_blank>HKS SSBOV</A><BR>You may notice the wheels starting to spin in second gear. I had to let off the throttls a bit because the car started heading off the road.<BR>Its not easy to grab footage like this and drive a 5-speed at the same time.<BR>Enjoy!