I want to redo it all!

[ScooterBovine]

I want to redo my whole sound system. I already bought the new deck, so I need advice on the rest.

I will have 2 or more subwoofers in the back, so bass is covered.

What I need advice on is the speakers and a 4 channel amp that will power them. I was thinking 6 x 9s in the back, but I think that since I will have subwoofers, that the extra bass that the 6 x 9s provide will be moot. So really, I think I want some speakers that handle the midrange and hirange the best and not worry about the bass response.

Also, I was reading the Amplifier write up on another thread, and the author raised a ton of good points. So, what do you all recommend for just 4 speakers? Also, if possible, I would like it to fit under the front seat. Or, if better, I can do 2 amplifiers, one for each channel, under each seat.

Things I am looking for with the speakers:
1) Sensitivity. I would like around 92 db.
2) Decent frequency response. Like I said, I don't really need bass from the regular speakers, since I have subs.
3) Power Handling. Won't do well to have amps that push 70 watts RMS and the speakers can only handle 50!
4) Impedance. Similar to above. Gotta have the same OHMs as the amps that power them.

Things I am looking for with the amp(s):
1) Size. I would prefer for the amp(s) to fit under the front seats, I like them easily accessible for tuning purposes, and to keep them hidden.
2) Heat. Since they will go under the seats, they need to be able not to get too hot for several obvious reasons. So amps with good cooling is a plus!
3) RMS power. I'm trying to match the right amps with the right speakers, so these need to be close I think?
4) Signal to Noise ratio. I want clear, clean music.
5) Impedance. Gotta match the speakers to the amp in this area. Don't want to break something!

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

[2fazed]

I know you could fit a small amp under the passenger's seat, but I think there's stuff under the driver's side, that will be in the way. First check that, before buying your amps.

[ovendenk]

hey man. hate to burst your bubble, but the amps under the seat is a good idea, but won't work. 1. there's no decent 4-channel amp that can physically fit under the seat. 2. if you could find amps that fit under there, you'd need cooling fans for sure to keep those heat sinks cool because there's no ventilation under there.

don't forget that all yor signal wires like rca and speaker wire have to be run on the opposite side from your power wires to avoid distortion.

in terms of speaker choices to cover the audio spectrum, you'll need 6.5's up front and at least 6.5's in the rear, preferrably a 6x9. reason is that you shouldn't run a 6.5" speaker below 300hz for long term good sound quality life and even most 10" subs can't comfortably reach above 200hz at decent volume. 12" only gets worse. so, you now have a gap between about 150hz to 400hz where you missing good quality audio. that's why you'll see guys who put in a 6 or 8" woofer for that mid-range bass.

problem is that our car can't easily accept anything bigger than 6.5" up front or in back. some have put 6x9's in the panels next to the rear passengers.

i have done the best i can for my audio, but i know that there's that range of missing audio frequencies. i don't even run rear speakers because i can't fit a 6x9 and having 2 sets of 6.5's was no better than a single good quality one.

good luck man.

[lakersfan1]

Things I am looking for with the speakers:
1) Sensitivity. I would like around 92 db.
2) Decent frequency response. Like I said, I don't really need bass from the regular speakers, since I have subs.
3) Power Handling. Won't do well to have amps that push 70 watts RMS and the speakers can only handle 50!
4) Impedance. Similar to above. Gotta have the same OHMs as the amps that power them.

Things I am looking for with the amp(s):
1) Size. I would prefer for the amp(s) to fit under the front seats, I like them easily accessible for tuning purposes, and to keep them hidden.
2) Heat. Since they will go under the seats, they need to be able not to get too hot for several obvious reasons. So amps with good cooling is a plus!
3) RMS power. I'm trying to match the right amps with the right speakers, so these need to be close I think?
4) Signal to Noise ratio. I want clear, clean music.
5) Impedance. Gotta match the speakers to the amp in this area. Don't want to break something!

Pt 1.

1. Sensitivity figures are moot since one manufacturer may not use the same specifications to measure sensitivity. Is the measurement at 1 meter or a half meter? Is the measurement at 1,000 Hz or its peak output? Is the measurement with 1 watt or one volt?

If you want ACTUALLY better sensitivity, I can tell you from personal experience that Boston Acoustics and Infinity have pretty good efficiency without sacrificing sound.

2. Frequency response is another moot point. Is the figure in-car or free-air? Is it on-axis or off-axis? Is it +- 1 dB, +-3dB, or no parameters at all? What it sounds like in-person is much more important than the response numbers on a sheet of paper.

3. If you're getting coaxials, the speakers are normally rated at full-range powr handling anyways. If you're using subs, you'll be crossing them over .... which means you may be able to use more than rated power. Not that you need to worry about having an amp bigger than the speaker's rating anyways ..... it's called the gain control. If you distort the speaker, turn the gain control on the amp down.

4. Almost every single full range car speaker made since Moses parted the seas has been 4 ohms. It's not even worth looking at. A couple here and there are 2 or 3 ohm, but it's still within the handling capability of most every car amp made as well.

Pt 2.

1. See if you can find a Class D or Class T amp, More efficient means smaller.

2. See answer one. More efficient also means less heat.

3. See Pt 1, Answer 3. Gain control once again saves the day.

4. Signal-to-noise ratio. Yet another moot statistic. No two manufacturers use the same measuring parameters. One manufacturer's 80 dB SN amp may actually be QUIETER than another manufacturer's 120 dB SN amp. Why? Because one measured it at 1 watt, while the other measured it while pumping out 100 watts of program material. If you're going to be listening to pretty much any music someone under 50 typically enjoys, this stat won't be an issue .... because you'll be listening to it loud. SN ratio really only can be told by those listening to orchestral music with lots of quiet parts.

5. Nearly every single 4 channel car since Lincoln freed the slaves has been a 2 ohm stable amp.

[ScooterBovine]

Thanks Lakersfan, that's the kind of stuff I don't know about. In the end, I guess I don't really know anything about car stereo stuff.

Oh, and as for a 4 channel amp that fits under the driver's side seat and doesn't require cooling fans, etc?

Here's what I have under my seat right now: MRP-F240
It's an Alpine amp, and it fits perfectly! Unless the seat is moved all the way forward, you can't tell that it's there. And it never seems to get too hot too the touch. It's pretty nice, I think. But if there is something better, please let me know.

As for the wiring, I ran the speaker wires and RCAs down the left side of the seat along the door, and the power wire from the distro block in my handrest/cupholder down under the carpet on the right side. I used the seat bolt as a ground point. No distortion that I can tell, but then again, I don't have the ears for such things.

Maybe I am tone deaf...

Currently, I have 6 1/2 Alpine S component speakers in the front and back, but if there is something better, I want to know! I was going to get someone to build me a custom job in the back for some 6 x 9s.

Thanks for the continued input folks.

[lakersfan1]

Don't waste your money to get 6x9 in the back. Most people into stereos (self included) rip the rear speakers out. That's the first thing I do when I bring a new car home is rip the rear speakers out.

Just put alot clean of power to the front speakers as they'll take, then do a sub in the back. Personally, I think the Alpine S are a fine speaker to begin with. I'd start with those, add the sub ... then work on system tuning (i.e. crossover points) and see where you stand.

[ScooterBovine]

Okay, so ditch the whole 4 channel amp idea and just stick with making the front speakers sound the best they can? What front component speakers do you personally recommend, if money is no issue? I already have speaker mounts for 6 1/2s made, so those would prolly be best? But if you know of another size that's better, by all means, let me know!

[lakersfan1]

6.5 are fine. If money was NO object, I'd get Dyanudio System 240 GT. But unless you're talking about dropping $700 on a set of speakers .......

The 4 channel amp will still work even if you go to 2 channel. Look at your owner's manual. There should be a proceedure for bridging the amplifier to two channels.

6.5" in the doors is fine if you are ultimately going to put one or more subs in the near future.

[ScooterBovine]

If I am going to spend that much on some speakers, then I will definately get a new amplifier as well! What would you suggest to power such a set of speakers? Once again, money is no issue.

[lakersfan1]

If I am going to spend that much on some speakers, then I will definately get a new amplifier as well! What would you suggest to power such a set of speakers? Once again, money is no issue.

If money was no object, a McIntosh or Zapco amplifier. But I woudln't put any of the better amplifiers under the seat either. A) They're too pretty. B) Better component amplifiers are straight class A/B with a class A bias, so they put out way too much heat to go under the seat.

[ScooterBovine]

Yeah, I read that on Crutchfield. Lots of heat due to always having current running through the transisters or something.

[PATDIESEL]

I'd go with a set of Boston's newer components if money is not an issue. They sound AWESOME. Use top quality RCAs too. Most people skimp here and it hurts. No noise in the RCA means the headunit and amp are making all the sound just like they should. Any distortion from there is either in the ground wire (not well grounded) or the headunit or amp quality.
As for amps I'd take a look at several, but probably start with JL since they make a good product for the price. However, I don't shop without thining about price and thus you might consider more of what Lakers is talking about.
I also recommend ditching the rear speakers. Less to think about, less weight, less money and only rear seat passangers can hear them.

[ScooterBovine]

Where is a good online site to shop for speakers? In my area, there are no real stereo shops, or else they just carry lower end stuff than I am looking for, or Best Buy kind of places.

[PATDIESEL]

Hi-Fi Buys carries some higher end stuff. Beyond that you need a stereo shop or Crutchfield (high prices though). I'd check E-Bay too, but only buy that kind of stuff from a company with lots of good feed-back.

[lakersfan1]

As for amps I'd take a look at several, but probably start with JL since they make a good product for the price.

JL amps are only worth half thier price. They're just not built as well as other amps at thier price point.