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What's the best option for worn transmission?
Posted: April 4th, 2007, 4:38 pm
by nightfire
Ok so when I do my KLZE swap I'd like to freshen the transmission as well. My 2nd gear synchro is almost completely gone and the 1st and 3rd aren't much better.
Since I'll be putting down ~200hp I'd also like to make sure the bearings are in good shape.
I just called Mr. Transmission for a rough estimate and the guy I talked to said I'd be looking at anywhere from $500 - $1000 depending on what I get done. That seems ridiculous to me.
Can anyone recommend a better option? What do most people do?
Should I attempt a rebuild myself? Should I try to find a low km unit? Is there a good place to buy rebuilt units?
Posted: April 4th, 2007, 5:24 pm
by Tunes67
Before you jump to the conclusion that your synchros are shot (though its still a definite possibility) You should replace your shifter bushings if you havent already done so.. old shifter bushings make your stick feel loose and sloppy. And since new shifter bushings are cheap from mazda (mine were $35 US) or you can see if you can find some SRD bronze oil bushings. They run around $90 or so.. either way.. the bushings are a lot cheaper to try before dumping a bunch of cash into a rebuilt or even replacement tranny.. and you would want to do them even if you end up having to rebuild anyway. Cheers
Tunes67
Posted: April 4th, 2007, 11:09 pm
by mitmaks
$500 - $1000 is the average price youll pay for transmission rebuild. It is not ridiculous. 4x4 transmissions usually $2500
Posted: April 5th, 2007, 12:11 am
by tysoe
It will probably cost $200+ just to take the tranny off the car and put it back on again. I got quoted $450 to have a new clutch kit installed.
Anyway, try the bushings, someone posted some nyoil bushings that are avaliable, as well as the SRD and mazda bushings. Think it was a new post
http://www.imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3061
Anyway I got the bronzeoil shifter bushings, nylotron engine mount member bushings and extension rod bushings and the gearbox feels like new now.
Posted: April 5th, 2007, 4:06 pm
by nightfire
Tunes67 wrote:Before you jump to the conclusion that your synchros are shot (though its still a definite possibility) You should replace your shifter bushings if you havent already done so.. old shifter bushings make your stick feel loose and sloppy. And since new shifter bushings are cheap from mazda (mine were $35 US) or you can see if you can find some SRD bronze oil bushings. They run around $90 or so.. either way.. the bushings are a lot cheaper to try before dumping a bunch of cash into a rebuilt or even replacement tranny.. and you would want to do them even if you end up having to rebuild anyway. Cheers
Tunes67
I actually have new bushing I'm installing with my short shifter this weekend (brass/oil bushings + urethane extension link). :)
I'm sure it's the synchros though. I've had worn ones before. 2nd and 3rd grind pretty bad when shifting hard. I
might be low on gear oil though; I'm planning to flush it soon.
tysoe wrote:It will probably cost $200+ just to take the tranny off the car and put it back on again. I got quoted $450 to have a new clutch kit installed.
Anyway, try the bushings, someone posted some nyoil bushings that are avaliable, as well as the SRD and mazda bushings. Think it was a new post
http://www.imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3061
Anyway I got the bronzeoil shifter bushings, nylotron engine mount member bushings and extension rod bushings and the gearbox feels like new now.
Oh I'll be bringing the transmission in myself. I'm doing the engine swap after all. :)
But if ~ $1000 is what it costs to get it rebuilt I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet.
Thanks everyone.
Posted: April 7th, 2007, 2:54 pm
by mx3
where is gear oil located because i just put another tranny in my klze and its still grinding in 2nd and gears seem hard to get in
Posted: April 8th, 2007, 2:02 pm
by jaydog5678
nightfire wrote:Tunes67 wrote:Before you jump to the conclusion that your synchros are shot (though its still a definite possibility) You should replace your shifter bushings if you havent already done so.. old shifter bushings make your stick feel loose and sloppy. And since new shifter bushings are cheap from mazda (mine were $35 US) or you can see if you can find some SRD bronze oil bushings. They run around $90 or so.. either way.. the bushings are a lot cheaper to try before dumping a bunch of cash into a rebuilt or even replacement tranny.. and you would want to do them even if you end up having to rebuild anyway. Cheers
Tunes67
I actually have new bushing I'm installing with my short shifter this weekend (brass/oil bushings + urethane extension link).
I'm sure it's the synchros though. I've had worn ones before. 2nd and 3rd grind pretty bad when shifting hard. I
might be low on gear oil though; I'm planning to flush it soon.
tysoe wrote:It will probably cost $200+ just to take the tranny off the car and put it back on again. I got quoted $450 to have a new clutch kit installed.
Anyway, try the bushings, someone posted some nyoil bushings that are avaliable, as well as the SRD and mazda bushings. Think it was a new post
http://www.imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3061
Anyway I got the bronzeoil shifter bushings, nylotron engine mount member bushings and extension rod bushings and the gearbox feels like new now.
Oh I'll be bringing the transmission in myself. I'm doing the engine swap after all.
But if ~ $1000 is what it costs to get it rebuilt I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet.
Thanks everyone.
You may want to consider replacing the trans with the current one as an option. A rebuild will almost always cost more than just replacing with a known good one. Low fluid will cause problems so you may need to check that asap. The rebuild quote is fairly accurate though. You good used trans, I would figure around $300 - $500 depending on who you know.
To make you understand your trans internals, synchronizers are the buffers for shifting gears from 1st to 2nd, 3rd to 4th, etc. The synchro ring is made of a softer alloy than the rest of the internal rotating parts. When you shift gears, gears are stationary while the clutch/hub or sliders as some like to call it will mesh with the gear you are trying to go into. The gears and clutch/hub sleeve are made of the same hard steel metal. when you have two very hard metals contacting or meshing together, which do thing will wear out more? A softer synchronizer metal to a hard clutch/hub sleeve or 2 very hard metals clashing together. One problem with the clutch/hub sleeves and some of the meshing gears, is that the "teeth" on these gears are pointed like the shape of a V. These teeth will mesh and slide right next to each other when the gears are changing. Over time, they wear out. They wear even more when the transaxle is abused, low fluid, no fluid, to much heat/friction, etc. I've torn down quiet a few G and F series transaxles, and in most cases, they had worn out gears, clutch/hub sleeves and even reverse gear with little or no damage to any of the synchronizer rings. Remember the gears (depending on primary or secondary shaft) have those V shaped teeth that mesh with clutch/hub sleeves. Reverse gear also has the pointed V shaped teeth on the secondary shaft.
To say what is causing hard shifting and grinding could be several things I mentioned above. It's possible the synchronizer rings could be causing you problems, however you would need to tear the trans down to be sure.
Posted: April 8th, 2007, 3:51 pm
by nightfire
jaydog5678 wrote:nightfire wrote:Tunes67 wrote:Before you jump to the conclusion that your synchros are shot (though its still a definite possibility) You should replace your shifter bushings if you havent already done so.. old shifter bushings make your stick feel loose and sloppy. And since new shifter bushings are cheap from mazda (mine were $35 US) or you can see if you can find some SRD bronze oil bushings. They run around $90 or so.. either way.. the bushings are a lot cheaper to try before dumping a bunch of cash into a rebuilt or even replacement tranny.. and you would want to do them even if you end up having to rebuild anyway. Cheers
Tunes67
I actually have new bushing I'm installing with my short shifter this weekend (brass/oil bushings + urethane extension link). :)
I'm sure it's the synchros though. I've had worn ones before. 2nd and 3rd grind pretty bad when shifting hard. I
might be low on gear oil though; I'm planning to flush it soon.
tysoe wrote:It will probably cost $200+ just to take the tranny off the car and put it back on again. I got quoted $450 to have a new clutch kit installed.
Anyway, try the bushings, someone posted some nyoil bushings that are avaliable, as well as the SRD and mazda bushings. Think it was a new post
http://www.imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3061
Anyway I got the bronzeoil shifter bushings, nylotron engine mount member bushings and extension rod bushings and the gearbox feels like new now.
Oh I'll be bringing the transmission in myself. I'm doing the engine swap after all. :)
But if ~ $1000 is what it costs to get it rebuilt I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet.
Thanks everyone.
You may want to consider replacing the trans with the current one as an option. A rebuild will almost always cost more than just replacing with a known good one. Low fluid will cause problems so you may need to check that asap. The rebuild quote is fairly accurate though. You good used trans, I would figure around $300 - $500 depending on who you know.
To make you understand your trans internals, synchronizers are the buffers for shifting gears from 1st to 2nd, 3rd to 4th, etc. The synchro ring is made of a softer alloy than the rest of the internal rotating parts. When you shift gears, gears are stationary while the clutch/hub or sliders as some like to call it will mesh with the gear you are trying to go into. The gears and clutch/hub sleeve are made of the same hard steel metal. when you have two very hard metals contacting or meshing together, which do thing will wear out more? A softer synchronizer metal to a hard clutch/hub sleeve or 2 very hard metals clashing together. One problem with the clutch/hub sleeves and some of the meshing gears, is that the "teeth" on these gears are pointed like the shape of a V. These teeth will mesh and slide right next to each other when the gears are changing. Over time, they wear out. They wear even more when the transaxle is abused, low fluid, no fluid, to much heat/friction, etc. I've torn down quiet a few G and F series transaxles, and in most cases, they had worn out gears, clutch/hub sleeves and even reverse gear with little or no damage to any of the synchronizer rings. Remember the gears (depending on primary or secondary shaft) have those V shaped teeth that mesh with clutch/hub sleeves. Reverse gear also has the pointed V shaped teeth on the secondary shaft.
To say what is causing hard shifting and grinding could be several things I mentioned above. It's possible the synchronizer rings could be causing you problems, however you would need to tear the trans down to be sure. :wink:
That should be a FAQ.. :) Nice explanation.
I'm sure in my case it's the synchros (at least). Slow shifts (letting the intermediary shaft(s) come up to speed) shift nicely (no grinding) but if I don't give it enough time to sync (slam the gear), it grinds before engaging (only in 2nd and 3rd). I'm pretty sure I'm low on oil.. the whole gearbox just feels gritty. It seems to stick in gear a little harder as it warms up.
I just bought the car a month ago and the b---- that owned it before
abused it. When I took possession it had no coolant in the overflow tank, no oil on the bottom of the stick (and what was in there was the worst condition oil I've ever seen). #1 valve seal gone.. oil in the cylinder.. valve seat gone.. clacking like crazy. There were little dents here and there, the gas cap line had rusted against the trunk release line. It goes on and on.
My fear is that the axle seals are finished and refilling the transmission will be pointless (making a mess everywhere). Since I'm swapping the engine and transmission in a couple months anyway, I figured why bother. Maybe I should change the seals and refill it to protect what is good in there anyway.
Hrm.