did i just kill my car?? (UPDATE)

[im2bad4ya]

what constitutes a "full rebuild", how much would that run me and what should I check? I'm gonna rip apart the engine over the next week or two and see what I have. I'm skeptical about it being a blown head gasket tho cause I'm not blowing any type of smoke out the exhaust, but it's just curious that the 2nd and 3rd cylinders have no compression, maybe just coincidence and those components really are just gone. I certainly wouldn't pay more than the $300 I paid for the BP in the first place to get the car going again and that's pretty much my tipping point whether to fix or sell. As far as removing the the block, I've searched and gonna go by this guide:
http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.ph ... ead+gasket

But what's the best logical move to check for my problem, should I remove the engine head to get the the head gasket first, or should I removed the oil pan to check the pistons and rings first?

[Sleeper6]

Remove the top end, if its a headgasket your already there, if it was bottom end I doubt it would have even ran for you with a considerable bit of noise. Heck I made such a big deal in my head about doing my KL oil pump in the car I was ready to swap in a different motor but at the end of the day I stepped back and did it logically and it was over in half the time I thought it would. Its amazing how big of a deal we make something out to be when were frustrated with it, in the end its better to build up a motor with known good parts then try your luck with another jy buy, atleast you know its right and reliable for just the same amount of cash.

[wytbishop]

Given that the oil clearly seriously overheated I would want to see the condition of the main and rod big end bearings. I would also want to see the condition of the piston skirts and the cyliner walls at least in those cylinders with super low compression.

Given that you have essentially zero compression in two cylinders it just doesn't make sense to take a shortcut. You have to chage the rings in those two so the crank and rods have to come out and you will need to at least rehone those cylinders. If you're at that point anyway just buy a rebuild kit and do it properly. $325 for a Topline Major Engine kit on www.importperformaceparts.net.

[im2bad4ya]

Okay, well it looks like I'm gonna have to separate the head from the block anyway, so I'll see what's going on once I do. Just a few questions I couldn't fine answers to.


If I leave the intake manifold on the head, can me and a buddy remove it ourselves by hand once it's unbolted or is it so heavy that I'll need an engine lift?

I have the BP engine, do I need to remove the cams to get to the cylinder mounting bolts?

Along with draining the coolant, is it a good idea to drain the oil before I start? (I guess if when I drain both, they're both mixed or the same color, headgasket is more likely the culprit than not )


I have the Protege workshop manual so I have the torque specs, order of removal for bolts, etc.


Any other last words of wisdom before I get going? I'm gonna order the head gasket and exhaust gasket today then.

[SuperK]

two people will be able to lift the engine/head just fine. You don't have to remove the camshafts to reach the headbolts.
You want to drain both the coolant and the oil before starting.

depends on where you go, I usually use rockauto or partsdinosaur.com for my parts.

my suggestion is once you get the head removed, bring it into a machine shop and have it surfaced/vacuum tested. that way you are sure your valves are seating and it's not warped. I don't believe it's that expensive to do either.

[im2bad4ya]

I had the time after this school week to start tearing apart the engine, and this is my "report" so to speak:





There was virtually no anti-freeze when I tried to drain it. As for draining the oil:



Looks like I got myself a oil/anti-freeze smoothy



So i followed the link I found to remove the head gasket. I removed the exhaust manifold, and it was pretty oily:





I made sure I had marked the position of the cams to the belt:






After removing the necessary belts, hoses and cable, this is what I found:










If you notice the top of the cam bolts, there's a foamy white fluid, I'm thinking oil/anti-freeze slushy.




All cylinders (visual inspection of course) seem to be fine. The head gasket is made from three sheets of metal which were separated in the middle, but held together on both ends. Just by looking at the oil (mind you, it was fresh, I only went around the block where I live), and the head gasket condition, and the cylinders (looks fine to me) I'd say it was the head gasket. What do you guys think? Now that I have the engine apart, should I further investigate or do all these things pretty much point to the head gasket? Also, what can I put in my cylindres to clean them before I put the engine back together (or should I even do that at all?) Anyone can point me to my next move?? Anything else I should check? Fluids, additives or extras before reassembly??

[Demonic1]

Looking at the pictures it would appear to be the headgasket. AFAIK at least.
Usually before pulling the head and removing the timing belt you would want to line the crank at TDC. The cam gears should line up with the timing marks. I use zip ties to keep everything in place while the belt is removed. Good move on marking the timing belt though. You did remember to mark the crank shaft too right? The crank moves 2 rotations to every one the camshafts do. When reassembling you could install it 180 degrees off.
Don't use any form of abrasive in the cylinders. Nothing. A slight scratch is enough to everything off. Make sure there aren't any areas that appear to be scratched OR untouched. A scratch would be a damaged ring, and would need the entire cylinder machined (might as well do them all at that point). If there appears to be an untouched section there is a gap in your rings and the cylinders would need honed (simpler than machining) and new rings in either case.
Before trying to put the head back together, make sure you do a good job cleaning the surfaces. The top of your block looks pretty bad. I use engine degreaser and let it sit for a few hours then use a razor blade to clean the gunk. When using a blade though you need to make sure you don't scratch scrape or harm the surfaces. Before I put it all together I use this stuff to help seal
http://www.permatex.com/products/automo ... ealant.htm

I'm sure someone else will have more to add. Make sure you clean all the mating surfaces, double extra super check your timing, DON'T damage anything.

[SuperK]

your headgasket is junk, the coolant made clean trails where they filled up your cylinders. clean off the block where the headgasket mates, a flat edge razor does very well here. My suggestion is take the head to a machine shop and have them surface/vacuum test it just to make sure that the head isn't warped in any way, and it'll have a proper finish for a new head gasket. . You'll be fine with assembly as long as everything is clean.

Degreaser is fine for pre-assembly cleaning.

Run some cheap oil with a good amount of seafoam for a little bit, the seafoam helps remove the moisture and clean up the gunk that's accumulated in congealed oil.

Then put some nice oil in it and you'll be golden.