MX-3.com

First up I am far from an expert on these things - even the use of the term in that sentence is a joke.

My understanding - yes you can ditch the MAF and use the built in MAP function- thats one of the things that is so attractive about the MSnS from a KL standpoint (apart from the bang for the buck)

You can also ditch the factory PCM altogether (if you are running the right build of MSnS ie right board right options) - the convential wisdom seems to be that its best to leave the factory PCM to do some of the basic stuff (in a road going daily driver application) and use the MSnS in piggy back mode.

There is a heap of stuff on the probe.com site. Recently there was a BB running that offered an integrated MSnS v3.0 and a factory PCM (hard wired in) that was plug and play into the existing loom. Physically looked like a very tidy piggyback setup.

From memory there is a NZ user Group forum within the MSEFI site. I haven't checked back there in a long while.

Hey, there are these things called private messages if two people wanna converse, but this thread got kind of off topic...

So the final ruling as that a KJ is too big, yes? Because according to the dimensions, it didn't seem to be that way, unless the measurements were wrong...

CCreech of MOCA has a KJ in hand right now. It is actualy going to be a rebuild and sell of a Millinea S he bought that has a bad head gasket. However, we (the other members of MOCA) are trying hard to get him to let us do some test fitting with the KJ before he places it back in the Millinea.

ADathomir wrote:Hey, there are these things called private messages if two people wanna converse, but this thread got kind of off topic...

So the final ruling as that a KJ is too big, yes? Because according to the dimensions, it didn't seem to be that way, unless the measurements were wrong...

Hmm 12 post's and thats all you can come up with.

The way ideas are spread or improved on or exchanged are
through a open forum which i last looked was this forum.

And by the way just so other peaple are not being left out go and read
some other posts where peaple do have conversation's

God bless the fifth amendment!

I wasn't trying to be snippy...but the reason we had asked was because we wanted opinions. It would suck to buy a Kj then have it not fit. It was irritating to have to scroll through text that had nothing to do with our question and still not recieve an answer.

And technically since the flyingmxer and I are posing the question for my mx that gives us 87 posts all together, and I realize that's nowhere near your 497, kiwi_mx3, but the complaint was lodged by him first, and I was the one to complain about it on forum.

I want to get the engine replaced in my mx soon so that I can drive it instead of just leaving it parked, but we still need to know what our options are and if the KJ is one of them.

Pat, that would be awesome if he would let test fitting happen, that way we'd have a solid answer to our question

Right all sharp instruments are put away.

Engine options V6 subframes needed.

K8 1.8 V6
KJ 2.3 V6 - NA version and yes i can prove this with photos peeps!
KL 2.6 V6

Engine options 4cly subframes needed.

BP 1.8 4Cyl turbo or Non Turbo
FS 2.0 4Cyl can be turboed
F2 2.2 4Cyl can be turboed

Engine options that well custom work is required for mounts and
bell housing's

12A 2 Rotor nuff said
13B 2 Rotor nuff said
FE3 2.0 4 Cly ( bellhousing pattern is of a b2000/b2200 )

Thats a KJZ miller supercharged motor, somewhere under all that stuff
lurks a v6 and a automatic box, its not little by any means and quite
a fraglie engine.



the KJ 2.3 in NA form looks just like any other motor in the
K serise.

Ok Adath point made - we jacked FlyingMXer's thread. Sorry about that.

Got to say though - the PM suggestion is a BS idea in the context of a forum like this. It should be all about the exchanging of ideas information and suggestions. The use of PMs in the way you suggest would leave us all high and dry.

Back on topic - my contribtion is this - the physical size of the KL is the least of your problems in my opinion. Converting the wiring loom and sourcing all the sensors and hooking it all up to the ECU will require a very high skill level and a lot of $$ and time. I have a KJ-ZEM and a KL-ZE loom to compare - they are very different eg more sensors on the KJ loom.

The performance return for $$ spent means that a KJ-ZEM conversion just doesn't stack up in my opinion.

Chris

Thats the loom you would have to swap into your car.

Thank you both very much for the help, and you're right about the PMs because its not accessible to everyone...just trying to get the thread back on target...

We just wanted to check the KJ because from what we've heard/researched the KLZE may be too big with the automatic transmission, and had power concerns with the stock K8 transmission. The KJ only came with an automatic, so we knew the power may not be the issue, but size would.

So, I guess basically it's come to opinions? Does anyone know for sure if the KLZE will fit with auto tranny, because my car's gonna start being pissy if I don't drive her soon and some sort of engine swap is going to happen...

~Jen (ADathomir) and Dallas (flyingmxer)

Doing a ZE would be the easiest thing. If your stock MX-3 auto tranny is ok it will bolt up and work. The ZE does not have enough power to wear out the stock tranny from a MX-3, but it will cause it to heat up more. Thus you'll need to install a tranny cooler to keep the temps down. (heat is the major killer of trannies)
If your MX-3 auto tranny is not in good shape (like most I've ever seen and at our car's age and milage) I would suggest that you convert to manual. It is a good bit more work, but in the end is the most reliable solution. I do not think that the auto ZE tranny will fit, but since some ZE engines come with the auto tranny for free (find one that does have a tranny for free) you could always try and fit it in the engine bay and see for yourself. They are a bit longer and the stock MX-3 trannies already come close to the engine cradle.
On a side note the KJ is going to be some work. Since no one has really given it a good effort to install in the MX-3 there is very little known about the problems that you have to overcome to get it in and running. So I stay away from that one for now. MOCA might try it and see what happens, but I don't know if Chris is really willing to let us test with his investment and wouldn't blame him if he said no.

PS, why would you need the dash harness for the KJ. The motor only needs the engine harness to work thus your pic is very misleading. True to convert to a manual she might consider replacing the dash harness so that she gets reverse lights and a nuetral safety switch without rewiring, but who in the hell would go through all that just for reverse lights that IMO arn't worth the cost of the bulb in the first place. Also the steering column, gauge cluster, fuse box, and it looks like the AC wiring are not needed at all in any circumstance for any motor or tranny swap.

The only KJZ's ive seen in NZ have the dash mounted autoshift
and have a complete different loom and dash setup.
and the ECU is not anywhere near the stock location in the MX3.

The picture is of a complete mx3 loom, just gives a idea of what is
called for to swap a KJZ in. IMO.

if its Hp that you really want klze + TURBO!

Guess that is my KJ inexperience showing.
What the heck is dash mounted auto shift? Never heard of that before.

Where is the ECU in a KJ Millinea?

The auto tranny is most likely going down, because she changes gears really hard, especially between 1st and 2nd...

Conversion to manual= not possible. I still think it's impossible for me to learn to drive one, and if I was going to learn, I would'v done so before and found a manual mx in decent shape...

Dallas came to the realization last night that we could maybe pair a KLZE with the K8 tranny, but since the existing tranny needs work, that's going to be money...

Phew, I knew I was buying a problem...and a car that would easily blow through cash...

projectB10 wrote: Back on topic - my contribtion is this - the physical size of the KL is the least of your problems in my opinion. Converting the wiring loom and sourcing all the sensors and hooking it all up to the ECU will require a very high skill level and a lot of $$ and time. I have a KJ-ZEM and a KL-ZE loom to compare - they are very different eg more sensors on the KJ loom.

The performance return for $$ spent means that a KJ-ZEM conversion just doesn't stack up in my opinion.

Exactly. I have started tearing down the KJ and as I did, I was thinking about what all would have to be done to stuff it in an mx-3. It would take some doing but it could be done...Yes you probably have to modify the hood though. There are a ton more wires not to mention vacum lines on this engine than on my ZE. You would have to do a lot of work but like everything that we talk about on here IT CAN BE DONE, but most of the awesome ideas that we come up with (like a rotory RWD mx-3) are just not worth the time and effort to MOST of us. If you are a brave, well educated, well funded person go for it, and please take lots of pictures for the rest of us to drool over, but it would be a Pain in the Rear of Royal Proportions. Besides a good KJ motor is more expensive than ZE's from what I have seen. Not to mention getting the wiring harness, ECU... Just look at Kiwi's photo. Nuff said?

I am up for seeing if a K8 manual tranny will bolt up. Supply me with a hoist and a tranny and its a done deal. I know someone who has a tranny laying around

ADathomir wrote:The auto tranny is most likely going down, because she changes gears really hard, especially between 1st and 2nd...

Conversion to manual= not possible. I still think it's impossible for me to learn to drive one, and if I was going to learn, I would'v done so before and found a manual mx in decent shape...

Dallas came to the realization last night that we could maybe pair a KLZE with the K8 tranny, but since the existing tranny needs work, that's going to be money...

Phew, I knew I was buying a problem...and a car that would easily blow through cash...

Why are you so opposed to a manual tranny. It is not hard to drive once you know how. The Auto Trannys are notorious for going bad and I would expect that it would go out faster when paired with a ZE. It seems that you MUST have a tranny fluid cooler to maintain an auto tranny in an Mx-3 for any length of time. That said, the Mx-3 is a really easy car to learn a stick shift in. My k8 would almost take off with out touching the gas. The Idle was a little bit high though.