V6 AWD Possiblity?

[Thefez]

Anyone thought about trying this with the FORD ESCAPE/MAZDA TRIBUTE 5Speed AWD tranny since is a G5M variant? Befor I was on here I was a ZX2 guy and there was a guy on there in Canada tryin to do this with the 4Banger Zetec link -> http://teamzx2.com/threads/24046-Mike-s-AWD-ZX2

Was thinking since the MX-3 the ZX2 share the same tranny mybe it might be possible? along with that tranny he used the rear subframe(axle)

I know one of the issues was tunning and switching from linage to cable shift but im sure mega squirt would solve the tunning issue..

So let the discussion begin!

[stangant]

Just learning these cars so no input to the discussion other then I want it to be possible.

[Mnemonic]

research.

[Nd4SpdSe]

It doesn't use the same tranny, it uses the same gearset IN the trans. The ZX-2 SR trans components are actually 4.11:1 which is the same ratio as the Mx-6/626, but uses better syncros, and because of the age of the car, they'll have lower miles when found. It uses a totally different motor and i doubt that the trans will be bolt-up, an adapter plate would be needed (see tehbrookzorz for what it takes to mount a trans to a motor that it wasn't designed for).

One question which someone asked which I thought the same thing (parents having an Escape themselves) that AWD was auto only, but it seems that the Tribute may of some in 5spd. Also, as a correction, the AWD in the Escape is NOT full-time. When I go home I can post a pic of my parents owners manual.

The ZX2 uses the same engine as the 4cyl Escape/Tribute, but what's neglected is that as far as I've read and looked into, that AWD was V6 option only (and again, automatic only), but a quick looks, seems that I've learned something new:
http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicle ... Z312785233

The ZX2 is on a similar chassis than the Mx-3, using the same chassis as the 323/Protege that is the Mx-3's very close cousin. People have done KLZE swaps into them, and even one or two few Zetecs into mx-3's.

In later threads he reports that he couldn't keep his ZX2 rear subframe and will have to use that from the Tributes. It answers one of my questions as I was reading it; the Tribute is on the Mazda 626 platform, not a bolt in job.
(cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3814244/1 ... 8142444027)

Apparently even a 4WD MT Tribute exists too! (http://www.samarins.com/reviews/tribute2.html), but information is scarse, on many sites like this (http://www.new-cars.com/2003/ford/ford- ... specs.html) they don't mention a "Duratec MT", unless they're just listing the Zetec as the lightest with manual, and the Duratec with automatic would be the heaviest. Just finished reading the 2003 Tributes owners manual and there's no indication of a 4WD 5spd, so I don't know...

Weird, this guy is from Ontario

Final verdict:
- Swap to a Ztec 4cyl and Tribute Subframe for AWD - "V6 AWD Possiblity" : No
- AWD 4cyl Escape/Tribute trans bolt to a Mazda K-series not likely feasible - "V6 AWD Possiblity" : No
- Swap V6 and AWD from Escape/Tribute, haven't seen a Duratec 3.0L in a Mx-3/323 yet - "V6 AWD Possiblity" Maybe, but may be automatic only.
* Swapping with the AWD system from a 323/Protege would be easier since it seems you'd have to go the 4cyl route anyway

That's my $0.02

Personally, always wanted to make a v6 MazdaSpeed6 like it was prototyped with a twin-turbo KLZE back in the day, but it would use the 3.0L V6 Duratec that both comes in the Mazda6 and the Tribute/Escape, it would all just depends if the Mazda6 CD3 platform accepts the trans and rear end from the CD2 of the Tribute/Escape. Also, depends if an AWD Duratec with a manual transmission actually exists...

[Thefez]

The G5M-X (escape/tribute 5-speed awd tranny) isnt very common which why most literature doesnt show it. And aparently im wrong in assuming that the k seriese uses the G seriese transmission which i got that idea from here since the zx2 and mx-3 both share the mfactory 26spindle lsd..

Also i know very well how the awd system as it uses the abs sensor to activate the rear wheels once the front wheel or wheels slip.

Also never thought this swap would be bolt on has i know that the rear sub frame
From the escape/tribute is no wear near being bolt.

But as seeing as its deemed not possible with the G5M-X, then a high rpm 1.8/2.5 is in need of research by my self..

Also you are miss informed about the zx2 s/r as it used the later tranission design which did not use the 4.11.1 gear ratio the pre 99.5 zx2's used the same ratio as the mx-3. The 99.5+ tran used the same ratio as the msp

[Nd4SpdSe]

The G5M-X (escape/tribute 5-speed awd tranny) isnt very common which why most literature doesnt show it. And aparently im wrong in assuming that the k seriese uses the G seriese transmission which i got that idea from here since the zx2 and mx-3 both share the mfactory 26spindle lsd..

Also i know very well how the awd system as it uses the abs sensor to activate the rear wheels once the front wheel or wheels slip.

Also never thought this swap would be bolt on has i know that the rear sub frame
From the escape/tribute is no wear near being bolt.

But as seeing as its deemed not possible with the G5M-X, then a high rpm 1.8/2.5 is in need of research by my self..

Also you are miss informed about the zx2 s/r as it used the later tranission design which did not use the 4.11.1 gear ratio the pre 99.5 zx2's used the same ratio as the mx-3. The 99.5+ tran used the same ratio as the msp

1) Yes, the Mx-3 uses a G-series trans, but that series is in reference to the GEARS INSIDE the trans, it had nothing to do with how it mounts to the motor. The gears/innards/guts are what are compatible/swappable, not the trans to the motors. See "4"

2) Makes sence, I know my parents sytem works that way, native FWD until it detects slippage than kicks in the rears. You could have the system engage with a button like the 4wd-lock feature that it supports, but that's not designed to work as a full-time system on pavement; that 4wd trans would pretty much be for off-road/rally/drag race use only, so you would never see the handling benefit of AWD on road course/autocross/etc. It doesn't work like on the 323GTX/GTR, which is a full-time system.

3) You're call

4) I had ZX2 s/r gears and MSP LSD, paid a pretty penny for them too, but sadly they never made it into the Mx-3. I got them from a guy here (Gro_Harlem) who came up with the swap. I don't know what year car mine came from (it was his 2nd set) but his was from a 2000 ZX2 S/R. Here's a quote, will explain a few things from "1"

For a stronger transmission, look for a 1997+ Ford Escort w/SPI DOHC and the 1998+ Ford ZX2 w/zetec DOHC. These cars also use a G-series trans. The case cannot interchange, neither can the differential, but all the internals can be swapped over. It's been said the Escort/ZX2 trans weak point is the spider gears in the differential, since you will use your current differential or the MSP LSD, that eliminates the problem. The main reason for this swap, are different gear ratios, stronger gears and syncros.

It's also noted that the Ford Escape used a G-series trans. Unknown as to what years or if it was the FWD and/or AWD models.

[Thefez]

Fair enough but my reason for inquiring/discussing this swap would be for rally/road coarse and as soon as your wheels would start to slip in a turn the rear wheels would engage. And yes your right you could make it is with a switch it would be all time awd. If you did this whole only racing and turned off for daily im sure the system would hold fine.

And if the cases are not interchangeable why is this? Evedence? Im not trying to be an a-- or turn this into a pissing match I just want facts.

Also just so you know the zx2 s/r gears/transmission was no different from the rest of the transmissions. Also if you still have the msp lsd id be interested in it possibly

[Nd4SpdSe]

Fair enough but my reason for inquiring/discussing this swap would be for rally/road coarse and as soon as your wheels would start to slip in a turn the rear wheels would engage. And yes your right you could make it is with a switch it would be all time awd. If you did this whole only racing and turned off for daily im sure the system would hold fine.

And if the cases are not interchangeable why is this? Evedence? Im not trying to be an a-- or turn this into a pissing match I just want facts.

Also just so you know the zx2 s/r gears/transmission was no different from the rest of the transmissions. Also if you still have the msp lsd id be interested in it possibly

The ABS system in the MX-3 wouldn't know how to handle that, especially since they're for braking only and not ABS/TCS. You would need different controller to monitor the ABS systems at all times and not during braking. Maybe you could make a seperate controller to do that, but you're getting very complex there. Unless you have a non-abs Mx-3, put in the ABS spindles with sensors on all 4 corners and run it to a box that monitors the speed of each wheel than will engage the lock when there is enough of a difference, and not just front/back, but remember too that the Mx-3 on a stock diff will one-wheel-peel.

I have no evidence, I've never had the case on hand, but out of the fair amout of people who have swapped the gears would of more likely figured that one out and let us know. If Gro says they're not interchangable, they're not interchangable. He's probably had both side by side, considering he put the guts from one into another.

That I didn't know. The MSP LSD has been sold a few years ago, but I know the owner who was parting it out and may still have it for sale, however, i doubt he would part it from the gears as they're both 4.11:1. The MSP LSD wouldn't work in an Mx-3 trans since it's 4.38:1 so the LSD wouldn't mate to the pinion gear.

[Thefez]

You can alway change the ring gear. And fair enough bout bolting up but if someone with actual experence on the matter please feel free to chime in. And im sure ms3x would be able to be set up for abs control like that but i wouldnt know %100 on this.

[Nd4SpdSe]

You can alway change the ring gear. And fair enough bout bolting up but if someone with actual experence on the matter please feel free to chime in. And im sure ms3x would be able to be set up for abs control like that but i wouldnt know %100 on this.

You can, buts its been welded, so its not going anywhere.

I highly doubt it. It designed to monitor only when on the brakes and from then uses a hydraulic unit to control the application of the brakes to each corner to stop them from locking up. You're doing something that requires a totally different function. Here's a good read on what it needs to do, monitor and control:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/brake12.pdf
Ya, it's for Toyota, but the systems are in concept the same.

[Savin]

Also, depends if a Duratec with a manual transmission actually exists...

Mazda6 3.0 V6 *cough* Duratec *cough* came in 5spd manual
Jaguar x-type 3.0 V6 *cough* Duratec *cough* came in 5spd manual and 5spd manual AWD.


Don't forget, the duratec 2.5 in the SVT contour came in manual (not awd, but mtx none-the-less). 3.0's are a direct swap for the 2.5 guys if i remember correctly.

[Nd4SpdSe]

*cough*
was talking about AWD manual transmission
*cough*
if it wasn't obvious through the novel I had just wrote
*cough*
*cough*
yes I know you can get a Duratec 3.0L in manual FWD
*cough*
*gasp*
*gag*
*cough*
smart a--
*cough*

Oh, and for thefez since you're new, if you didn't know, you can get a KLZE AWD in Japan in the Mazda Capella, Automatic only.

[Savin]

Yeah...I kind of scanned over the part where you had mentioned the mazda6 with a duratec. I just saw the "3.0L" part and skipped ahead. My fault. Anyway...not many people do know the V6 in those came in manual. Just thought I'd mention the manuals together. I could of done without the coughing stuff, but I was tired, that's how I thought to write it.

At least I posted a useful tidbit about the jag! lol They probably have an AWD auto trans as well. Just another option, even though is not favorable. It could be like the Escape trans though, I have no idea.

Nd4SpdSe, your throat all cleared up? Maybe coming down sick? That is a lot of coughing over there. j/k

[Thefez]

Ya i know about the klze auto awd jdm only. And yes the 3.0 is a direct swap for the 2.5 guys but doesnt run %100 because of tunning issues..

I know alittle bit about swaps:) but id still like to here from somone as to why it wont bolt up from somone who has had bolth transmissions next to each other.

[tehbrookzorz]

For clarity, the 3.0L Duratec is a direct swap for the 2.5 Duratec, not the KL.