Running a ZE on 87 octane?

[Steeb]

awesome!!!! u are the man!

question answered once and for all

Originally posted by IanL:
Aiden,

Could you check whether your manual says 91 RON. If so, I expect that's 87 at your pump.

However, if it says 91 (R+M)/2, it would be strange.

For the avoidance of doubt (as they say ) here's a link which makes things clear Octane Ratings
and one for if you get REALLY interested Octane Measurements

<small>[ October 31, 2003, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Steeb ]</small>

[93-Spec-Edn]

Originally posted by Darren Hyderman:
interesting.....on page 3-2 of my manual it also says 91.
(sorry no scanner)

"Your Mazda will perform best with regular unleaded fuel having a research octane number (antiknock index) of at least 91 [(R+M)/2 method, 87]

what does the ,87 stand for at the end? I am using 87 and am thinking of using 91 as my manual says the same as yours.

[IanL]

Originally posted by Ayaz:

Originally posted by Darren Hyderman:
interesting.....on page 3-2 of my manual it also says 91.
(sorry no scanner)

"Your Mazda will perform best with regular unleaded fuel having a research octane number (antiknock index) of at least 91 [(R+M)/2 method, 87] at least 91 [(R+M)/2 method, 87

what does the ,87 stand for at the end? I am using 87 and am thinking of using 91 as my manual says the same as yours.

North America uses the (R+M)/2 method of octane measurement. Europe uses RON. 87 (R+M)/2 equates to 91 RON.

The words above "
at least 91 [(R+M)/2 method, 87 " are confusing. My guess is that it means and should say at least 91 RON, [87 (R+M)/2 method] . That's consistent with the advice in my manual, and the scan above.

However, the composition of fuels in N America seems to vary according to supplier and season, so your car may well run better on 91 (R+M)/2.

<small>[ January 01, 2004, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: IanL ]</small>

[pelado]

Originally posted by Si:
Sorry to be a pain but what does the knock sensor do then? I thought it listened for pre detonation and then retarded the ignition before any damage could occur - I would expect to lose some hp but not wreck the engine if this were the case.

It does exactly that, retards the ignition timing.

BUT pre-detonation (knock, ping, same thing) is already occurring when it is doing this so damage may already be occurring. It has no damage sensor, just the knock sensor.

[guyaverage]

Personally, given the high compression ratio of the ZE, err on the side of caution and use premium (91+) because if the knock sensor were to fail, prolonged knocking can melt pistons, break rods and blow headgaskets. The few extra dimes spent at the pump is cheap insurance in my opinion. If you're going to spend $1500+ to drop a ZE into your engine bay, dont risk it by trying to save $2 at the gas pump twice a week.

[gsrbomb]

With regular 87, my Canadian K8 perfprms less than with 93Premium.

In my Owner's Manual, 87 is recommended, but a 93-97 KL 2.5L w/9.2:1 (same as the K8) needs Premium fuel.

I always put premium in my K8, and all K series needs it !

[Steeb]

i had half a tank of 87 when my ze went it. it ran ok except once on the freeway it started pinging at low rpm load in 4th gear. after that everything was fine. i wouldnt reccomend 87 although it is supposedly equal according to ians post but it may not be up to par with the 91 ron. ive been running 89 with no problems, and no pinging. u should be safe with 89

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=repairFuel

[nos92mx3]

for the sake of young children and mx3er's everywhere dont use 87 octane ive got the 1.6 sohc and i run 93 and usually an octane booster. Dont be cheap man.

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: nos92mx3 ]</small>

[UoMDeacon]

...because boy, does that performance engine need it!

Originally posted by nos92mx3:
for the sake of young children and mx3er's everywhere dont use 87 octane ive got the 1.6 sohc and i run 93 and usually an octane booster. Dont be cheap man.

[Steeb]

Originally posted by UoMDeacon:
...because boy, does that performance engine need it!

Originally posted by nos92mx3:
for the sake of young children and mx3er's everywhere dont use 87 octane ive got the 1.6 sohc and i run 93 and usually an octane booster. Dont be cheap man.

i believe the conversion above is correct in saying 87 is supposed to be the same as 91 in other countries so i didnt bother adding octane boost with my swap. i also did it to find out for sure. yes u can run 87 but the quality of our fuel may not exactly be up to par in reality. there are type-r's running boost with stock 10.6:1 compression. i think 10.1 on 89 is definately sufficient. everyones conditions may differ.
anyway i think higher octane is needed if detonation occurs. higher octane resists detonation.u may need higher octane in higher temperature climate areas due to higher intake temperatures. some cars may gain slightly in performance if they were made to do so. up to a certain octane you will get no more performance gain. i dont see any need for more power on the streets with 89 or 91 nor does my butt feel it. i get no pinging with 89. the mileage is the same, the performance difference certainly cannot be felt. thats why i use it. im sure if my knock sensor was out something would go wrong anyway.

[mx3TT]

This is my feeling on this topic, if you are going to spend a lot of money to put a ZE into your mx-3, why put cheap gas in it? Put atleast 92 in there. I dont put anything less then 93 in my BPT. I realize the BPT is turbo and makes a difference but its the same concept.

[Steeb]

not trying to argue here but if 87 is supposed to be equivilant to 91 ron on this side of the ocean is not 89 suficient?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/probemx/p_p6.htm

the below info is taken from the above link

Can I use higher-octane fuels for more performance?

Using high-octane fuels (98/100 RON) has benefits on the V6 engines as they have a knock-sensor to take advantage of it; UK Standard unleaded is 95RON, Super-Unleaded is 97-98RON. However using higher than 95 RON is largely unnecessary (re cost/power).
The ECU automatically adjusts timing based on the knock sensor from 6-18 degrees, a very considerable range. Base timing is 10 degrees +/- 1 degree.

Cars with 2.0 engines, like Miata/MX5s, do not have knock sensors and thus can't take advantage of higher-octane fuels without adjusting their timing. The miata/MX5 groups often do this, but there is no safety back-track if pinging does occur due to carbon-buildup (on any engine) or simply poor quality gasoline a risk of engine damage as a result.

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Steeb ]</small>

[Buff1110]

heres how i see it. i spent so much money getting everything set up and running perfect and either replaced or upgraded everything that im not gonna complain about spending the dollar or even 2 dollars on filling my car with super 93 vs 87 octane. y go cheap now. we know the car runs great on super, spare the extra dollar and kill off this thread.

[Steeb]

unless you can give some hard reasoning and proof that u need higher octane this below is the only hard fact on this whole thread relevant to the original post

Originally posted by IanL:
This is a method of measurement issue. Lots of countries use RON (Research Octane Number) measurement, and the recommendation in my (K8D) Owner's Manual is 90 RON. This is the same as about 86 (R+M)/2, which is the measurement system in N. America. So 87 is fine in the US.

By the same token, I think a KLZE in the UK (if I could get one ) would need 98 RON (about 93 to 94 on the(R+M)/2 scale).

why waste money on everyones opinions when they are not facts. everyone is just saying "heres how i see it" or "i think cuz i spent so much..." "why go cheap" blah blah etc cuz all that is based on opinions. its like running octane boost in your old *** vw bug when 87 is just dandy. not saying we have an old ancient engine but if mazda recommends 91 ron or a quality 87 you will feel no difference with higher octane unless the fuel is not up to par hence knock sensors. it is stated that way by mazda on the site i posted. id really like to see real reasoning besides claims based purely on opinion. not trying to start a fight here but if u have a detonation problem there really is no reason to use higher fuel octane. and if u have a detonation problem with recommended octane fuel you have other problems to take care of. higher octane fuel in that case would only be a temporary band aid.

killing this thread will only cause confusion to people that are researching this in the future.

note: higher octane fuels are more resistant to combustion to resist detonation. if your intake temps are really that high that your detonating, use higher octane.

i know there are knowledgable people here, use your brains, listen to facts, reply with facts. opinions are not facts and are not proven. why would you use a performance part with no benefit? maybe it is a couple bucks difference but why throw away a couple bucks every tank if there is no benefit?

[Steeb]

http://www.rs-productions.com/RSP_Motors/tech/research/low-downgas.htm

ttt