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 FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6 
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Post FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
The KL has a forged crank, split crankcase, oil squirters, oil tap plugged on the block, and block girdle stock. It is definately ready for forced induction. The first limitation you will run into with your basic SC/TC system is fuel. Running a larger fuel pump and a rising rate FPR [FMU], you will get to the where the stock 190-220cc/min injectors start to have spray patterns [fuel pressures around 80-90psi] when you run around 6-8psi. Andrew Brownsword ran out of fuel @ ~5psi with his non intercooled KLDE on a T04E 50 trim. Chad from MIPOC and Alan Wong both have run upwards of 13psi on a stock block, but Alan had additional TB injectors whereas Chad was still on stock fuel. So for all intents and purposes, you need to upgrade fuel before you think about going internal, as nobody has blown an engine due to anything but running lean yet. You can get larger injectors from a few sources. Rafi at <A HREF="http://www.rr-racing.com/" TARGET=_blank>rr-racing.com</A> has apparently convinced venom to make larger injectors using our stock, pain in the butt side feed injectors. Stock Millenia S injectors pre 99 are 280cc/min. Stock Millenia S injectors 99+ are 305cc/min. Stock secondary injectors from a 13B-REW from a FD3S are 850cc/min, and drop in the stock rails. These would support upwards of 900bhp. Joe Kamman has successfully modified two <A HREF="http://plaza.ufl.edu/mugen23/images/KL/sr20fuel.ppt" TARGET=_blank>SR20DE rails</A> to fit a KL. They have 259cc/min injectors stock, and he has upgraded those units to 370's. Should be enough fuel for his monster Eaton M90 PGT project. Getting them to idle below 2000RPM would be quite a fun trick, but probably doable with a stand alone EFI system. The plus about stand alones is that you also control spark timing, which adds to your margin of safety under boost. *UPDATE* June 2002- Joe has gotten his 370's to run with a TEC2. Check the Forced Induction forum on Probetalk.com for more info [username Joe Kamman]<P>The next issue you're going to want to address is your stock cast rods and pistons. Yeah, they have lasted over 12psi, but probably by the grace of God. Some good forged units would definately put my heart at ease approaching 1bar. Victor Pavlovets has put together a forged bottom end kit for the KL:<P>Hey guys, a friend of mine who is building my current engine, is interested in putting together a piston + rods kit. This will be a true fit kit so you won't need to do any work like the TKT kit. Here is what he wants to include <P>Eagle H-beam rods (much stronger than I-beam rods) <BR>Wiseco Pistons, pins, rings, clips <BR>Rod bearings <BR>Main bearings <BR>Thrust Washers <BR>Machined Crank. <P>You can get the pistons in any size and any CR you want. The whole rotating assembly will be completely balanced. All you would have to do is have the block bored out by a local shop if you’re going with bigger bore pistons, unlike the TKT kit which you have to do a ton of machine work to make the parts fit together. I just got off the phone with him and he said that price wise were looking at about $2200. <BR>*update*$1600 for H beam Rods, Wiseco Pistons, pins, rings, clips <BR>*update*$1690 same as above plus, rod and main bearings and thrust washers. <BR>Let me know what you guys think. PM me or email me at vicpgt@rogers.com if you’re interested. <BR>Thanks <P>Victor Pavlovets<P> <P>After you've upgraded your fueling [and controlling it] and your bottom end, nobody knows what the limit is. The standard headwork would be a good idea [port and polish, solid lifters, high lift cams with low overlap, bigger ports, bigger valves, etc]. The highest HP KL's that I've heard of were 480bhp out of the stock 2.5L of displacement, but funny enough they were the normally aspirated IMSA motors. Of course at this point if you're using a piggyback system to control your injectors, I'd highly recommend a stand alone engine management system. SDS, Electromotive , Haltech, Motec, Fel-Pro, and DFI all make good systems with various features that may be necessary for your application. I personally like the SDS as it has a higher resolution than many systems and is incredibly to tune quickly and get running on the street without days on the dyno. <P>Also, the KLDE is 9.2:1, which is going to be more turbo friendly on pump gas. The KLZE has 10:1 static compression, which, while being lower than all B-series VTEC motors, will be more prone to preignition than the KLDE. Sean Matthews has run 7-8 on his KLZE with a TD06 16G. If he were to get more fueling through either larger injectors or TB injectors, it would be very interesting to see how he could do on 8-10psi on 93 octane. I am no expert in the dark art of thermodynamics, but it seems that there is a good amount of quench and squish area on the head, so pump gas [94 octane] should be good to over 10psi. But again, nobody has blown up any KL due to anything but lean-out detonation, so the preignition limit of the KL is also unknown. <P>You'll note that most of this section refers to turbos and not superchargers. That's because I dislike ineffeciency, and therefore superchargers. If you have a supercharger, I don't hate you. Rather, you're just misguided :) Howard Chu made an awesome <A HREF="http://plaza.ufl.edu/mugen23/images/KL/turbosize%20boost%20maps.xls" TARGET=_blank>excel spreadsheet</A> specifically for a KL turbocharged setup. <P>KLDE @ ~8psi [T3 Super 60 compressor, large Spearco FMIC, 255LPH inline pump, and FMU]:<BR> Image

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David Coleman
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October 19 2002, 8:32 PM
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Post Re: FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
Manny's turbo Setup<P>2G PGT MTX, T04E 60 trim compressor, T3 turbine, hotshot primaries, FMU, Spearco FMIC, low boost.<P> <P><BR> Image <BR>Early pictures of test fitting.<P><BR> Image <BR>Yes, you can squeeze a T04E compressor there.<P><BR> Image <BR>Unlike most KL turbo setups, Manny was able to keep his cross member unhacked or modified. Note the huge T04E compressor.<P><BR> Image <BR>Nice Spearco FMIC.<P> <BR> Image <BR>The backside of the IC. Still some room, but it's getting tight. <P> Image <BR>Blitz BOV on the nice aluminized hardlines for the cool side of the turbo piping. I'm not sure if he got those with the little lip on them so the hoses don't pop off under boost though [highly recommended].<P> <P><BR> Image <BR>Using the Hotshot primaries, an equal length secondary system was developed. It sort of follows the stock design, in a round about manner. <P> <P><BR> Image <BR>A good view of the pipe going into the turbine [top of picture] and down pipe [bottom of picture].

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October 19 2002, 8:38 PM
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Post Re: FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
Manny (con't)<P> Image <BR>A good overview out of car of the hot side piping.<P> <P><BR> Image <BR>The hot side piping after being coated.<P><BR> Image <BR>All the piping in the car, wrapped, clamped, and ready for action. <P><BR> Image <BR>Big compressor and low boost means alot of vented exhaust gasses, so a big TIAL is in place.

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October 19 2002, 8:40 PM
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Post Re: FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
Sean Matthew's Turbo setup<P><BR>1992 Mazda MX-3 GSR, KLZE [KL31 cams, Curved Eunos manifold, etc], K8 VAF & ECU, Mitstsubishi 16G [big or small?], FMU, Starion FMIC, all home made. Ran 13.78 @ 108 on 17" street tires, very traction limited [couldn't launch hard due to frequently broken axles]. Sean has run 6-7psi daily driven on 92 octane with no octane boosters with no problems for over a year now. So for all you ZE turbo naysayers...here it is:<P><BR> Image <BR>Locating the compressor where the battery used to reside, that provides more flexibility on downpipe size and shape than Manny's setup. Makes the intake piping creative though...<P> <P><BR> Image <BR>Using the stock collectors, Sean just made the pipes come right together and then feed into the turbo [2" to 2.5" I believe], to minimize thermal lag and help spool.<P> <P><BR> Image <BR>Another angle, Note the big downpipe.<P> <P><BR> Image <BR>Later on Sean welded on a small dump tube for the wastegate I believe.

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David Coleman
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October 19 2002, 8:43 PM
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Post Re: FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
This whole post was taken directly from my website, which is not the definitive source for Turbo KL information. If you have other images or information you wish to add, let me know.

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David Coleman
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October 19 2002, 8:44 PM
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Post Re: FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
Moved to the V6 FAQ! :D

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October 20 2002, 11:36 AM
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Post Re: FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
I think it is important to note that, as interesting as it is, the install above (minus the stuff from Sean) is on a Ford Probe and, for the most part, will NOT fit on an MX-3.<BR>The firewall to radiator clearance in the Probe engine bay is almost a foot longer in total and over 6 inches wider.<BR> Image <BR>As you can see, a turbo would NOT fit between the exhaust manifold and the radiator, even if you removed the fans.<BR>I'd even argue that it doesn't really fit in the Probe unless you use solid motor mounts becuase the engine movement will smack up the rad pretty good.<BR>In addition, the lack of a flex joint or swages before the cat and the cutting of the support are <B>VERY BAD IDEAS</B> and represent some pretty ghetto engineering, unfortunately. IMNSHO<BR> [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]<P>[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: mazdamaniac ]<p>[ November 24, 2002: Message edited by: mazdamaniac ]

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October 29 2002, 5:26 AM
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Post Re: FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
Ray's turbo PGT [Rayman on PT]<BR> Image <P>Specs:<BR>Internally stock KLDE<BR>T04E 50 trim/T3 .63 turbine<BR>2.5" exh piping<BR>3" borla muffler<BR>FMU<BR>FPR<BR>Millenia S ~280cc/min injectors<BR>Jay B chipped ECU<BR>SAFC<BR>External Wastegate<BR>Hotshot primaries<BR>KLDE intake manifold with VRIS intact<BR>Spearco Air to Air IC.<P>EGT's are in the 13-1400 range @ full boost<P>If he gets a ZE manifold, dumps the VRIS, and pushes it to ~8psi, he'll have 320whp. Stock block KLDE. Not too shabby...<p>[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: David Coleman ]

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November 14 2002, 12:28 PM
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Post Re: FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><I>Originally posted by ProteZE </I><BR><B> Image <BR> Image <BR> Image <BR> Image <P> Image <BR> Image <BR> Image </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: David Coleman ]

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David Coleman
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December 03 2002, 2:21 AM
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Post Re: FAQ: Turbocharging a K series V6
Image <P> Image <P> Image

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David Coleman
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December 12 2002, 11:52 AM
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