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 KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying 
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Post KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
Much as the title suggests, our ZE swapped car is dying while idling. Neither temperature, RPM, or slight throttle load change when the car shuts off.

The PO who did the swap, unfortunately, was not that great at handling wiring. There are many wires that have been hacked, kept together only by twisting wires and taping them, bare wire showing, and so on. I was under the assumption that since the PO did the HEI Mod it was not done correctly, leading to the random dying. I tore into it and noticed this among other poor wiring.

Image

After rewiring the HEI Mod correctly; solder, heat shrink, wiring loom, and cleaning up grounds and contact points using emery cloth and keeping the corrosion out with dielectric, the problem still persists. Here's what the vehicle is doing.

Random Dying

It is still driveable, but I had to adjust the idle up; ~2,000 RPM.

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91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


May 20 2014, 6:00 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
Well I dont know these engines like most but best place to start is the basic 3 spark fuel air. Check ur spark with the plug to fender trick....use starter fluid or brake cleaner if visual inspection of vaccume and intake gaskets show nothing then move on to fuel...pressure tester...the go out from there..


May 20 2014, 7:09 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
posey92 wrote:
Well I dont know these engines like most but best place to start is the basic 3 spark fuel air. Check ur spark with the plug to fender trick....use starter fluid or brake cleaner if visual inspection of vaccume and intake gaskets show nothing then move on to fuel...pressure tester...the go out from there..


Vehicle runs just fine. I have plenty of spark, plenty of air (due to the hack job of an SRI), and plenty of fuel; she gets up and goes. Vacuum isn't the cause as she can idle, doesn't do much 'hunting' for that right RPM. I doubt fuel pressure as well seeing as it can idle fine. This problem is intermittent, i.e. a sensor problem. I'm thinking TPS/Ignition issue, but there are more sensors on this than I'm used to, mostly the VRIS (if that's the right one for the intake runners). I doubt the CAS/CPS as well as this fault is too random. Ignition isn't the issue either.

_________________
91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


May 20 2014, 7:16 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
If the car dies after reving or when you take your foot off the gas quickly like when you stop at a light then you probably need to change your trans neutral safety switch. I'll confirm but I believe that's the culprit. Try gently easing off on the gas pedal and if it stays running it's that switch. If memory serves me either Pat Diesel or GroHarlem told me about that one.

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2004 Subaru WRX Silver, stage 2, minty interior.
2002 Subaru WRX Blue, SOLD (best E test numbers I've ever seen)
94 MX-6. Sold
92 GS KLZE 5 Speed
96 GS 5 speed, KLZE, Sold
95 GS Minty Shape Sold
92 GS Sold
92 GS Parts Car scrapped.
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May 20 2014, 8:32 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
Come to think of it, it might be disconnected as you don't need to press the clutch to start it. Probably more bad wiring I would imagine.

_________________
91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


May 21 2014, 6:26 AM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
Well, just took a look under the dash near the clutch switch. I can't say for certain that it's the problem, but I would imagine that it has something to do with it; the PO did an aftermarket alarm system by himself and everything is a rat's nest of electrical tape and bad splicing. I'd take a shot in the dark and say that's the problem. I'll toss up a picture of the before and after once I get through everything and make sure that it's the problem once I refer to the wiring schematics.

If it does end up being the switch itself as well, they're only twenty bucks or so through RockAuto, so we're not losing out on much, but before the purchase, everything will be fixed.

_________________
91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


May 21 2014, 5:27 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
Here's the hack job wiring, again. PO stated that he 'didn't have any problems with it running' when we first picked it up last year. Hasn't had any problems besides the high idle (vacuum hoses, TPS adjustments, and throttle adjustments, and a new throttle cable will be needed; K8 or B6? or KL from an MX-6?) and the stalling issue, which he thought was the control module connectors.

Unfortunately, the problems have seemed to rear their ugly heads a little later that we would have hoped. In any case, here's the nightmare of an alarm system.

Image

The 1 circled area is obviously the clutch switch itself, or Starter Interlock Switch as the FSM calls it. The 2 circled area is the poorly done wiring into the switch's connector.

Image

1 and 2 circled are the same, 3 circled must be some switch by itself or, most like, the module for the siren/horn.

_________________
91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


May 22 2014, 6:14 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
Alright, so I did disconnect the clutch switch, even though it wasn't working in the first place. Still no change. I believe I might have to remove most of the wiring and re-do it all. I'm also leaning towards the crank position sensor as well. These symptoms that we're experiencing can be caused by it, but given it only happens when idling, I'm a little skeptic. I'd rather not have to replace the entire ignition switch for $300.

Does anyone know if the DE's position sensor will work with the ZE's?

_________________
91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


June 17 2014, 6:40 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
FYI the switch I was mentioning is on the transmission.

_________________
2004 Subaru WRX Silver, stage 2, minty interior.
2002 Subaru WRX Blue, SOLD (best E test numbers I've ever seen)
94 MX-6. Sold
92 GS KLZE 5 Speed
96 GS 5 speed, KLZE, Sold
95 GS Minty Shape Sold
92 GS Sold
92 GS Parts Car scrapped.
Feedback viewtopic.php?f=37&t=66348" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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June 17 2014, 7:38 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
Ah, the neutral safety switch? Don't have one, manual trans.

_________________
91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


June 18 2014, 6:31 AM
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Location: Guelph Ontario
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
I'd look at the "Air" portion of this problem. Is the VAF properly connected... faulty wiring to the VAF and you'll just stop at idle as Zero Air flow measured results in zero fuel.


June 18 2014, 8:04 AM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
RogueWolf wrote:
I'd look at the "Air" portion of this problem. Is the VAF properly connected... faulty wiring to the VAF and you'll just stop at idle as Zero Air flow measured results in zero fuel.


That's next on the list. The wires seem in good condition, but given the state of the rest of the wiring, that means nothing. It does not appear that the harness or wiring itself was hacked up at all, but it's worth a shot. Hardest part about this whole ordeal is that there isn't a CEL where I could get at least a shred of information to narrow down everything.

_________________
91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


June 18 2014, 7:17 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
Check out #10. http://www.mx-3.com/manuals/showimg.php ... J2-012.gif Apologies I mistakenly refered to it as the neutral safety switch. It's just the neutral switch. When in gear you should read no continuity on your ohm meter and when in neutral you should read continuity (numbers don't matter).
The neutral switch is used by the cruise control for one. If you shift into neutral and didn't have this switch the engine would over rev,,,and keep on reving until you shut off the cruise. Anyway like I said one of our seasoned long standing members suggested I change the switch when my car kept stalling if I just took my foot off the gas while I was stopping. If I eased the rpm's down I was usually ok. This may not fix your problem but it is a consideration. Cheers.

_________________
2004 Subaru WRX Silver, stage 2, minty interior.
2002 Subaru WRX Blue, SOLD (best E test numbers I've ever seen)
94 MX-6. Sold
92 GS KLZE 5 Speed
96 GS 5 speed, KLZE, Sold
95 GS Minty Shape Sold
92 GS Sold
92 GS Parts Car scrapped.
Feedback viewtopic.php?f=37&t=66348" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
7477th member.

I know you believe that you understand what you think I said but I'm sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.


June 18 2014, 8:16 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
No problem, I'll definitely give it a go. Since we're on the subject, I usually use JimEllisMazdaParts as a source for OEM parts. Here is their part number for the Neutral Switch: 17-640A, and BWD's Neutral Switch: S41294 (Import Direct Ignition 18-2241). When looking on O'Reilly's website the BWD number lists the part fitting only the B6's transmission, F25M-R. The OEM number fits the K8's transmission, G25M-R. I don't see that there will be much of a problem concerning the two as they are basically the same part as far as I can tell. One might have a longer wire, which is usually the case concerning the same vehicle with two different transmissions.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes; I'll check the continuity of the switch and hopefully there's something wrong in there.

_________________
91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


Last edited by CaffeineTripp on June 23 2014, 6:19 PM, edited 1 time in total.



June 19 2014, 6:36 PM
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Post Re: KL-ZE Swap Randomly Dying
Welp, crawled under to remove the switch. Noticed a funny looking color of an oil pan. That looks a little...dammit. Milky oil leak. Start engine and check exhaust. Yep, smells sweet. Well, that sucks. Time to pull head gaskets and change them both.

_________________
91 Dakota 239; header back, SRI, emissions delete.
92 MX-5; H&R, Prothane Total Kit soon
Wife's:
12 Hyundai Elantra 6 Speed Manual
92 MX-3 GS; KL-ZE swap, Maxxim 17's, Pacesetter catback, SRI. FOR SALE


June 21 2014, 5:36 PM
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