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 Interesting failed KL build and destruction 
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Post Interesting failed KL build and destruction
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/ ... 54/page19/


So I was reading this though and thought this was interesting.

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I idled it today to burp the cooling system and just to circulate the oil a bit. Made it about 5 minutes, up to 133 degrees water temp, oil pressure holding at 83psi (idle high due to base map). Then it died. Wouldn't restart, starter making horrible noises, but no crank. Figured maybe it vapor locked (running crazy rich on base map.) since there was gas coming up out of the throttles once it died. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/ ... RjkqX.dpuf


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Quote:
Not an oiling issue. Cam cap order is supposed to be 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 not 1 2 3 4 5 7 6 8. Buddy put them on in wrong order. Well so yeah it's an oiling issue caused by bad clearances. But there was nothing wrong with the oiling system itself. - See more at: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/ ... Pztur.dpuf




I think that even though the cam cap order is important, that to think that two caps were in the incorrect order is a little ridiculous.

For fun:
Anyone hazard a guess on what happened?

My opinion is that the front cylinder head received no oil. Those heads are as dry as (insert "your mom" joke and an inappropriate genital reference
here) from the looks at things, and no metal flakes were detected in the engine oil.
So then the head would have been "sealed" off from the bottom end.
I would wonder if he installed the wrong head gasket, or maybe it was the wrong direction, blocking off the oil passageways?

It's a real shame, the engine itself looked like it would have been a real winner if it ran.

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December 31 2013, 4:56 PM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
Thats like bone dry. Should of cranked it over and checked for oil flow first. I leave the plugs out and crank till oil is visable in the oil cap. Never crank a new motor first with the plugs in.

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December 31 2013, 5:42 PM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
First off I dont think its b.c it was ran bone dry, by the sounds of his oil pressure he had the clearances too tight on the cams and the cap in the wrong spot might have caused the excessive pressure. Those fragments are most likely galded to the cylinder head and not just dust like they appear in the pictures from the extreme heat, end of the day his clearances were off, too much heat, seized and even sheared his t/b pulley. Trust me Ive had to look under my valve covers to check things but thats due to my lower end clearances being too far out so opposite effect and my heads drain down clean like that. Those pics he has up are with the motor out of the car and heads off to btw dont forget.

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January 01 2014, 12:00 AM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
Sleeper6 wrote:
First off I dont think its b.c it was ran bone dry, by the sounds of his oil pressure he had the clearances too tight on the cams and the cap in the wrong spot might have caused the excessive pressure. Those fragments are most likely galded to the cylinder head and not just dust like they appear in the pictures from the extreme heat, end of the day his clearances were off, too much heat, seized and even sheared his t/b pulley. Trust me Ive had to look under my valve covers to check things but thats due to my lower end clearances being too far out so opposite effect and my heads drain down clean like that. Those pics he has up are with the motor out of the car and heads off to btw dont forget.



This is what I was thinking... He likely followed Michael Perry's advice on XtremeThings, adjusting the cam cap clearance, and the mis-matched caps on that cam proved too much strain. After testing this myself, seeing how much material can be removed from one journal, and not the next... It's easy to see how swapping the caps could lead to disaster.

This is why I have only followed that advice on a junk set of heads... I'm terrified of trying it on a daily driven engine.
This is where Sleeper nailed it:
Quote:
Those fragments are most likely galded to the cylinder head and not just dust like they appear in the pictures from the extreme heat, end of the day his clearances were off, too much heat, seized and even sheared his t/b pulley.

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January 01 2014, 2:43 PM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
Sleeper6 wrote:
I said stuff



It's crazy how it's welded the shards to the head. literally looks like solder. He stated in the thread he didn't actually set the cams, a buddy of his did.
It would have been fun to look it over.
It's odd though the last picture it shows the shavings sort of welded in the grooved portion. that actually has an oil feed in that groove that isn't blocked. with the proper oil flow, I would think that the oil would have absorbed/diffused most of the heat and would have prevented welding/fed shavings through to the oil filter at least. Would have been interesting to cut up the filter and see what's in there.

The cylinder heads weren't removed though. Have to remove the camshafts to remove the heads, he took pictures while the cams were still on.
On top of the journal that experienced failure was #8 which wasn't mismatched. I guess I would have expected #6 or 7 to freeze up. I dunno, I still doubt that head has any oil. There are grooves and dips where oil collects in the head, like right underneath the cam gear in the last picture. And it's clean as a whistle. He at this point didn't pull the engine either, it's still in the car.

Right or wrong it doesn't matter, it's just fun to see and interesting to know what's happened. KLs are funny engines. you got Leo pulling over 10k rpm like it's nothing, and then you got this guy who can't even idle his engine. Engine for every occasion!

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January 01 2014, 3:14 PM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
WOW! That is impressively bad. I wonder how hot the metal actually got to do that?

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January 04 2014, 3:58 PM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
wow looked closer superk your right about it being in the motor, saw the ITBs in the background. Still sad all the rotten luck hes had with this build.

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January 04 2014, 9:30 PM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
Sleeper6 wrote:
wow looked closer superk your right about it being in the motor, saw the ITBs in the background. Still sad all the rotten luck hes had with this build.


Its very sad... I am hoping he gets it back up and running again for this summer... He's built that car to compete in the same autocross class as me.. I was looking forward to facing him in the next couple years after he's shaked the bugs out of it..


January 05 2014, 1:32 AM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
I tried to "stalk" some of his posts and I guessed that he just gave up the project. I saw you posted in the thread, is he still working on it? I really want to see this engine go!

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January 05 2014, 12:09 PM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
SuperK wrote:
I tried to "stalk" some of his posts and I guessed that he just gave up the project. I saw you posted in the thread, is he still working on it? I really want to see this engine go!


Not right now.... He ran out of money and drive for the project for now.. I haven't heard anything about it in a long time...


January 06 2014, 11:25 AM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
Well he answered my question for me!

http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701315025

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January 16 2014, 9:51 PM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
with the amount of money he's spent.. he should just finish it.. soo sad..


January 17 2014, 2:51 AM
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Post Re: Interesting failed KL build and destruction
I'm in agreement with the no oil issue. Regardless of incorrect cam cap installation, no oil is going to kill it and it should have gotten oil to it real quick, regardless if it idled for a bit.

What about using assembly lube too or at least oiling the parts.... can't even see that. Combo fail.

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January 18 2014, 7:06 PM
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